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 One GodI also have a mini-tournament gameknot.com set to discuss the passages if you wish. Blessings, Len Isaiah 46:9 "Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; {I am} God, and there is no one like Me, Hosea 13:4 Yet I {have been} the LORD your God Since the land of Egypt; And you were not to know any god except Me, For there is no savior besides Me. Joel 2:27 "Thus you will know that I am in the midst of Israel, And that I am the LORD your God, And there is no other; And My people will never be put to shame. Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be {the only} one, and His name {the only} one. Mark 12:29-34 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these." The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM; AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE'S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." After that, no one would venture to ask Him any more questions. John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. Romans 3:30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is {but} one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we {exist} for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we {exist} through Him. Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not for one {party only;} whereas God is {only} one. Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, {be} honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, {and} one mediator also between God and men, {the} man Christ Jesus, James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. |
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Christianity, not monotheistic. |
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You make a very good point, I had not necessarily thought in terms the numerical value not signifying God as one but rather as you suggest a unity in the God head. I have opened a new Thread "God as a Trinity" which I hope will instigate a discussion with Nontrinitarianism folks. God is three distinct hypostases or persons and yet co-eternal, co-equal, and indivisibly united in one essence or ousia. This can be a difficult concept but clearly is biblical Here is the link to the God as a Trinity (One God) discussion for those who are not aware of it:gameknot.com |
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Trinity |
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Let us take a look at some of your statements and find what is actually factual. --Quote synergetics4d-- there was no mention of God as a trinity before the Roman Empire needed to include the cults that worshiped trinity --End of Quote-- In fact, the word is derived from the Greek word trias, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168-183), or from the Latin trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220), to express the doctrine. From www.antiochian.org we read: --Quote From www.antiochian.org we read: -- Prior to Constantine's becoming emperor, the early Church was going through one of the fiercest and bloodiest of the persecutions by the Roman government, the Diocletian persecution. During this wave of persecution thousands of Christians lost their lives, churches were destroyed, and scriptures were burned. Then in 313, the situation reversed itself. Constantine (with his co-emperor Licinus) issued the famous Edict of Milan, declaring Christianity to be a legal religion. Christianity was not yet the official religion of the Empire—this would not happen until 380 under Emperor Theodosius. And Constantine's edict of toleration was not the first—Galerius had issued a similar edict in 311. But it marked a major turning point for the Roman government. With the Edict of Milan, the three-centuries-long era of persecution came to an end. --End of Quote-- So, as you can see you have mislead the reader, the term Trinity was being coined long before the Roman Empire under Constantine declared it a legal religion. The Council of Nicea, 325 A.D first adopted and formulated the doctrine. However, again, we see it being explained and understood much earlier, e.g. Theophilus and Tertullian. --Quote synergetics4d-- Roman Empire needed to include the cults that worshiped trinity and the sun(thus the worship day being changed to Sunday) --End of quote-- The worship on Sunday was not due to the Roman Empire needing to include cults, this is extremely misleading. --Quote lavistachurchofchrist.org -- The reason why Christians worship on the first day of the week (i.e. Sunday) is quite simple. This is the day on which Christians have always worshiped. In Acts 20:7 we read: "Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight." What was notable about the first day of the week? It was the day when the disciples came together to partake of the Lord's Supper. The first day of the week was also the day when contributions were collected. "On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come" (I Corinthians 16:2). While the day of rest, the Sabbath day, held significance to the people of Israel, the first day of the week holds special meaning to Christians. It was on the first day of the week that our Lord rose from the grave. "Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. ... Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid Him" (Mark 16:1-2, 6; see also Luke 24:1; John 20:1). And the Lord's church was established on the day of Pentecost, which always falls on the first day of the week (Acts 2:1ff). Hence, the first day of the week became known as "the Lord's Day." "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet" (Revelation 1:10). --End of Quote-- So, as we can see the worship on Sunday was not as Steven lead us to believe but rather it is based upon scripture, which is what this Club is about, discussing the bible. Whew...took most of a page to debunk your first 2 or 3 sentences. Sheez, So as not to weary the reader, I will continue in a new post. Blessings, Len |
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syngergetics |
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--Quote synergetics4d -- They were so good at exterminating opposition to the new state religion that the gospels of Thomas, Peter, Judas, Mary ,and Mary Magdalene --End of Quote-- The "new state religion" had nothing to do with the "exterminating" those named Gospels. The Gnostic Gospels were found to be lacking in being "Inspired" as opposed to those which are contained in the Canon of the Bible. There are many so called lost books that people are now believing that they were intentionally not included in the Bible in the early church. It is not accurate the Church intentionally excluded the Gonostic Gospels from the Canon of Bible. In the beginning the church took its time to insure the right ones were accepted the church. They delayed their recognition and took their time to make sure a book was inspired by God and not from man. This way the Church was able to reject false books that wanted infiltrate Christianity and water down the truth committed to the apostles. and there were a lot of books circulating, increasing over a few hundred years. Quite frankly, your credibility is much in doubt with a statement such as "I was fooled by 9/11/01 too until I looked at the facts to see I had been told a bunch of lies" I do not see the correlation between the slaughter of over 3000 Americans by the hands of Muslim Terrorist and the inclusion of Gnostic Gospels in the Bible. But please, let us not get into that here. You continued your tirade about Jimmy Carter, the UN and getting us out of it, and the end of the American Empire, etc. Please, in order to maintain some semblance of credibility, confine your statements to the Bible and the Doctrines held there in. We are after all participating in a "Bible Discussion Club" not some "Truther" Blog or dialog. about how some organization alleges that the U.S. government is responsible for the 9/11 attacks, that it knowingly conspired to murder 3,000 American civilians. If the reader is not aware of Steven's reference to 9/11/01 you can ead more at: www.foxnews.com Blessings, Len |
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Thankyou Sola scriptura |
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Blessings and thank you. We are called to offer that "defense" when called upon to according to 1Peter3:1 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; I didn't have time to address the issue of the Rapture, but the citation of 1 Corinthians 15:51-56 is suffcient I think. |
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The rapture |
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Echad "In fact the Shema Israel of Deuteronomy 6:4 gives credence to this. The word for one is not the numerical value, but signifies unity of the God head." The description of Elohim as "echad" is also used in Gen 2.24 where it says that Adam and Eve became לבשׂר אחד (echad basar, one flesh). No it is pretty obvious that Adam and Eve were two distinct bodies, but they were described as "one flesh". So it is easy to make the transition to the conclusion that Deut 6.4 could be describing Elohim as one God, but multiple persons. |
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Rapture, Apocalypse, Trinity , Tetra grammaton On a less personal and whiny note, I have always been a student of R Buckminster Fullers works, he described the Universe in terms of tetrahedrons being the simplest self sustaining structure therein, and the symbol (or word) for Yahweh is tetragrammaton, so I have had the thought that the trinity of Godhead, Christ and Spirit is unstable and can only be fulfilled with believers as the fourth point of the tetrahedron. Perhaps I should take a cue from L Ron Hubbard and create Christianetics for the world.It would be honest at least, I no longer have the energy for pretense. The more I see God dissected by scripture, i.e. Elohim etc, the more it appears that man created God in his own image so that the tribe could prosper and conquer without guilt when possible and blame an angry deity when they were enslaved; for their faithlessness of course.There is no kind and loving God who would inherit both testaments who I have gnosis of.I can only be honest here and now and do not mean to antagonize anyone else. Feel free to tear me apart- Steven |
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Concern for Synergetics4D |
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mervynrothwell 04-Dec-12, 15:33 |
Seeking after truth.... Not everyone who participates in the club will necessarily subscribe to the Club’s essential tenets. We only require members to respect those beliefs, although an outright attack on them will result in dismissal from the club. We need to recognise that there are those who are seeking the truth. There may also be those who express views which do not reflect the Club’s statement of faith. It is open to other members of the club to present the evidence to demonstrate that expressed views are or are not supported by biblical truth. The comments made by Bjornhansen about the individuals he refers to are valid. The output of these people is usually based upon ideas they develop into a form of philosophy often with little or no evidence to give these ideas substance. These people almost invariably find their appeal in folk who are looking for an attractive answer to their personal questionings. The effect is that these fanciful ideas become attractive to those who are looking for a basis of belief when those seekers after the truth would be well advised to look at those sources of truth which have stood the test of time. The bold statements by many of these individuals will in time be shown to be of limited duration. Why? Because the evidence they are based upon is tenuous at best and fanciful at worst. To follow those who propagate such theories, and put them into the mixing-bowl will inevitably leave adherents confused and frequently depressed as a result. Contrast this with the Bible which has been demonstrated to be a sound historical document, consistently confirmed by contemporaneous historical documentary and archaeological evidence, and the teachings of which have withstood attacks by all and sundry, including those by the folk already referred to. This makes it a great place to start to find answers. Its certainty, its historical accuracy, its age-old truths, proven by evidence and experience provides the sort of certainty that gives any seeker after truth a sound foundation upon which to build their lives. |
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It is estimated that 63,185,500 died in WWII, war is never justified by killing more than what was killed by your foe. However, in the secular world in which you walk, one must also understand in the case of 9/11 only brute force is understood by Muslim Terrorist. They will not relent by pitching posies at them. The head in the sand will never stave off those who would have our lives or liberty. You stated "And I have found no gnosis;no voice from the bush or miracle to behold that would still my fear or shake my sanity". If you were to study the text of the Bible, you would find what you have stated has come to pass. For example: Numbers 14:28 "Say to them, 'As I live,' says the LORD, 'just as you have spoken in My hearing, so I will surely do to you; The Lord has done for you just exactly what you have asked. You have heard no voice from the bush nor a miracle to behold because you have told Him so. Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those who love it will eat its fruit. You are eating the fruit of what you have said. You have spoken ill words over your parents, can you expect anything less that the poor health which you have declared? You cannot find the faith to believe and yet the Bible says: Romans 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. I suggest closing your ears to the World, give up the lust of the World and those things held therein, rely on God. He promises that He will never leave you nor forsake you. You will only find the faith to believe by hearing His word. I have never had a promise by God not fulfilled. There are many which were fulfilled not by my aspirations or in my time frame but rather in His perfect time. He is never late, but always right on time. I pray that you would turn aside from your lost and delusional world view and step into the Light of Christ were peace and freedom are found. Blessings, Len |
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