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softaire 21-Jul-12, 07:05	to all While this seems a good way to end this current "controversy", there is some unfinished business... In a previous post(s), I have referred to the President as "BO". And, in a previous post I made a typo when referring to "Presidential Orders"... "... So fair is fair... answer honestly my questions above about his Presidential Oder's... TRUE OR FALSE?"... Somebody has asked me to delete the post but I think that would make some of the comments here "disjointed", so I'll simply explain that "BO" and "Oder" and NOT related, nor do they relate to the Presidential Body Order. "BO" is short for Barack Obama (meaning no disrespect other than it is quick and easy to write), and as I already explained "Oder" was a typo, something I do from time to time. So, sorry if you might have misunderstood. Usually, my meaning is clear from the entire context, sometimes not so clear.
deadofknight 21-Jul-12, 10:00	There is another point And it is one of great significance. BC says that we should not make remarks "against [her] President". And therein lies the root of the issue at stake. He is not her President to defend or my President to attack. He is our President. She cannot claim him as her own in an argument as if he were able to be possessed by one side but not the other. It struck me as odd that she would make this remark. And in the heat of her emotions she wrote a sentiment that we all might learn. He is ours. And this is why we are emotional. This is why we care. This is why we have feelings. This is why we research. This is why we watch the news, read the news, listen to youtube... This is why we are involved. I am glad she feels so attached to him, indeed. She feels protective, apparently. And I can see why. I would feel the same way if I were her and and I, too, feel that way about Presidents she has disparaged. But they are all OURS. And this key factor in making our country (and others) successful and prosperous. Just a thought. DoK
shamash 21-Jul-12, 10:05	"our President" as DoK says, yes, he is our President because the President of the United States for about the last one hundred years ever since US President Teddy Roosevelt intervened to end the war between Japan & Russia, & US President Woodrow Wilson intervened in World War One, the "war to end all wars," & continued when US President Franklin D Roosevelt intervened in World War Two, & US President Harry Truman launched the Marshall Plan to save Europe etc. . . . . ========> the President of the United States, for all practical purposes, has served as President of the World.
riaannieman 21-Jul-12, 10:26	I like him, but.... No, friend Shamash, I don't think he is practically the president of the world. I agree that the US president (who-ever he/she is) is powerful, and can direct and achieve a lot, but I wouldn't go as far to say what you did. We've had a powerful man ourselves, who is still directing politics, even after his so called retirement, but also, he isn't that powerful. No, I suggest you rethink that statement a little, and rephrase it. Very powerful, indeed, but not all powerful. By the way: THE SHARKS WON! I know that the US and Canada both have rugby teams, but they are not good enough to compete on the international scene... yet. I'm going to start a new thread on sports soon. Check out rugby at www.superxv.com/
softaire 21-Jul-12, 11:46	"the President of the United States, for all practical purposes, has served as President of the World." I don't think so even though some may believe themselves to be that.
brigadecommander 21-Jul-12, 14:03	Deleted by brigadecommander on 21-Jul-12, 20:24.
deadofknight 21-Jul-12, 15:12	BC Do not pity me, I do not pity you one bit. You live under the roof of a most noble nation. Diasgree and be fanatical if you must, but don't pity me. I don't need it. That is a liberal thought. DoK
anomalocaris 21-Jul-12, 18:29	I had no clue the NRA was involved in this shooting. I have looked all over the news but cannot find any info. Does anyone have a link?
deadofknight 21-Jul-12, 18:56	THERE we go again... aside, from the twisted road we take to get there...we arrive at "my countrymen". From whence did all this one-sided ownership of peoples and parties and groups and Presidents come from? Were it a Republican you would call it a throwback to slavery... DoK
brigadecommander 21-Jul-12, 19:00	Deleted by brigadecommander on 21-Jul-12, 19:50.
deadofknight 21-Jul-12, 19:02	Deleted by deadofknight on 21-Jul-12, 20:06.
brigadecommander 21-Jul-12, 19:05	Deleted by brigadecommander on 21-Jul-12, 19:28.
deadofknight 21-Jul-12, 19:09	Deleted by deadofknight on 21-Jul-12, 20:05.
brigadecommander 21-Jul-12, 19:14	Deleted by brigadecommander on 21-Jul-12, 19:27.
deadofknight 21-Jul-12, 19:22	Deleted by deadofknight on 21-Jul-12, 20:05.
dieharder 21-Jul-12, 21:41	Polotics as seen through my eyes First and foremost I must explain I am involved in politics, I am in several think tanks. This club is a side step and I want to keep it quiet. I thought I could talk to chess players on moves without descending into the normal derogatory stuff. First and foremost it is my club so if you do not like my ancient alien theory and be nice and have an open mind you are not welcome and I will boot you out of my club. If you have a sense of humor and an open mind you are welcome to contribute. Read between the lines the statement is quite clear, thanks for listening. Chris
anomalocaris 21-Jul-12, 21:50	I came to this club to get away from political discussions. I have a club for that.
riaannieman 22-Jul-12, 01:00	What is the NRA? Please tell me quickly.
brigadecommander 22-Jul-12, 01:09	National Rifle Association a very rich and powerful group dedicated to gun ownership and the 2nd amendment which says we have the right to bear arms..(which i agree with)
softaire 22-Jul-12, 07:55	BC So, I try to take a very non-controversial stance and ask: "Given that we should have the right to keep and bear arms, and also given that because some people are lunatics and go bonkers, what do you think we should do concerning gun ownership, gun usage etc.? What changes would you propose?"
riaannieman 22-Jul-12, 11:15	Thanks to you all. It is time to close this thread, as I said yesterday. I have read through the posts, did some research, and evaluated the direction this is going: it is not going to end well. As a politically moderate person, and outside the American situation that was mostly discussed here, I feel that both camps have valid arguments. However, it is clear to me that no-one will convince another here on this forum to change a point of view. I made some input contrary to some other peoples feelings, and we disagree on it, but I respect the other opinion. Please remember, every person's opinion is based on a lot of factors, which include frame of reference, personal experience, political and theological upbringing, personality and characteristics, age, sex, and many more. These factors may be very different to your own, (but just as valid) and that is why you feel differently about something. Please remember, the fact that you all have different opinions makes your country (and mine) such lovely democracies to live in. The vote of the majority wins the day. If you don't like that, there is an obligation on you to convince more people to come to see your point of view and support it. You won't be able to do that by threats, blackmail and fighting; that will only cause resentment and anger. The only way to achieve your goal is to stay calm, take a breath and start all over again, in a logical way, until you win a person over. Hopefully, with the next election, your camp will carry the day [is that the correct expression?]. Ladies and Gentlemen, please respect your opponents point of view. This was a heated, informative and sometimes funny thread. I'm sure we all learned, I know I enjoyed it, and I hope you all did as well. If you will resist the temptation to continue this specific discussion under a new thread, I will appreciate it. We can still discus general politics and other political ideas under another thread. Once again, thanks to all your input, ideas and information. Let's digest this, and really try to understand the other camp's point of view, even though you don't agree with it.
dieharder 25-Jul-12, 13:28	I am re-opnening this thread Please play nice people I believe in freedom of speech and this thread is useful to stop politics spilling into other threads. If you want to back up statements please choose widely acknowledged reputable sites (not propaganda). Thanks Chris
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