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From	Message
dieharder 02-Aug-12, 22:02	Whale conservation I have changed my profile pic because I am here to save the whales, I think they are great. They are beautiful and the world would be a lesser place without them despite what Japan and Norway say.
battlefleet 02-Aug-12, 22:53	this is a sad topic. very sad!! At least the great slaughter of the 1800's was stopped. But as the world once again sinks into the mire of extremism it could start up again i fear. All the wildlife on this planet is in big danger.From the Kalahari to the Arctic,from the pacific rim to Antarctica. Yes this is a sad topic. It gets me more angry then does the inane ratings of the right wing ideological fools in my country.
dieharder 03-Aug-12, 07:26	Mankind has no right to extinguish other species It is a sad topic but one that must be addressed. I am not a vegetarian but I do know that animals can think rationalise and have emotions. This goes against what some learned scholars might philosophise and is more in keeping with my experiences with dogs, cats, horses, pigs, sheep, dolphins and what I have seen on many national geographic documentaries. The hunt is part of the natural cycle of nature but there is a point where it becomes grotesque like the great slaughter of whales or the buffalo. The ancient tribes of native Americans and Africans had the right balance on when to kill animals and how to use them. While we are an advanced species we have no right to destroy other species by claiming intellectual superiority over them, by that rule it is us that should be extinguished. Its the classic judge not less you want to be judged yourself.
riaannieman 03-Aug-12, 10:38	Against the grain of morality Chris and I discussed a little of this in the past, when we talked about me going away from home so much, and my little Dachshund missing me terribly. All animals have feelings. All animals feel pain. Just because they lack the facial expressions that the human animal has, doesn't mean that they are inferior. The sad fact is that the human animal disregards anything that doesn't have similar physiology, genes or emotions. We have a greater affinity with apes than with fish, but that doesn't stop us from abusing both-in horrific ways. I've seen apes (chimpanzees) that are amputees, for no other reason than their hands were used as decorations. I've also seen fish abused- caught, taken out of the water and starved of oxygen for a long period, put back in the water to revive, starved again.... I am convinced that even that primitive brain feels anxiety, stress and fear. I am not a vegetarian; I love a good steak. However, I will not stand for animal abuse. Thing is, an animal cannot say that it is hurting, that it is hungry, in fear, anxious... if you want to kill an animal, do it quickly and humanely. Don't let it suffer, and by that I don't only mean suffer pain. We have the intellectual power to develop methods to kill animals humanely; we should use that intellectual power. Now that you know my frame of reference, we can go back to whale hunting. There are two principal reasons that I oppose whale hunting. The method itself is inhumane. The whale is wounded in such a way that it cannot dive to safety, and cannot swim further. The method is to harpoon it with an explosive. It is not killed instantly, but dies very slowly and painfully. That is unacceptable. The other reason I oppose it, is simply the numbers. When the genetic pool declines to such an extent that inbreeding is a problem, we will lose the whale population in a short time. As a police officer, I am committed to oppose terrorism. In fact, before the end of Apartheid, I investigated several terrorism cases, according to the definition at the time. Now, I support the endeavors of the Sea Shepherd, although Captain Paul Watson is often described as a pirate and terrorist. If his tactics are the only ones that stop the hunting of whales, then so be it. Being in a semi military environment, I believe sometimes force needs to be met with greater force, for the benefit of the victim. Unfortunately, that is the only language some human animals understand. In my opinion, to stop whaling, a war must be fought against the whalers, sinking those huge factory ships and the smaller ships and boats that actually do the hunting [What a cost to nature! Oils spills, diesel, and other pollution]. I may have an extreme view, but this is an extreme situation. We don't have too much time left to act. Act before it is too late! Blow them all out of the water!
softaire 03-Aug-12, 10:42	riaanieman Beautifully said and I am with you all the way. Good One!
brigadecommander 03-Aug-12, 10:57	yes right on. i agree 100%. They are very lucky i don't have a 'Captain Nemo Nautilus type Sub with stealth technology'. But fantasies aside, there Governments allow it. Once again money trumps morality.
riaannieman 03-Aug-12, 11:09	Now that's an idea! If we pool resources and knowledge, maybe we can build that sub. Mentioning that brought back a lot of memories, when I read the book as a child.... Jules Verne, if I remember correctly. I am not scared to make a stand and do what is right, even if the popular view is that the stand is wrong, but I need backing and resources and manpower. I have the willpower and the guts.
itchynscratchy 03-Aug-12, 15:52	<<I am not a vegetarian; I love a good steak. However, I will not stand for animal abuse. Thing is, an animal cannot say that it is hurting, that it is hungry, in fear, anxious... if you want to kill an animal, do it quickly and humanely. Don't let it suffer, and by that I don't only mean suffer pain. We have the intellectual power to develop methods to kill animals humanely; we should use that intellectual power.>> i could not have put it better. Human empathy is a powerful instinct that we should not completely ignore.
dieharder 04-Aug-12, 04:02	thanks for the comments I am glad I am not the only one who feels this way "save the whales"
thumper 04-Aug-12, 08:06	Though I'm a hunter, whales and porpoise should not be hunted for food or parts in my opinion. The same goes for primates.
riaannieman 04-Aug-12, 09:54	@ Thumper Yes indeed. If you approach hunting logically, prey animals should only be those animals that have a high reproductive rate, like MOST, NOT ALL, antelope. The whale reproductive rate is far to slow to hunt sustainably. Help me if I'm wrong, but I think the fastest reproductive rate in the whale family is the Southern and Northern Wright whales- one calf every two or three years. Some species can produce only 4 calves during a lifetime! With such a slow reproductive rate, it is easy to kill more than is born every year. The same applies to primates, rhino, and other animals like giraffe. Now here is something interesting: although the elephant reproductive rate is at best a calf every two years, they are conserved so much that they are eating themselves to death. They literally eat faster than the plants can regenerate. In Botswana, Zambia and Zimbabwe hundreds of elephants starve to death regularly because there is no food available. So, in this instance, I would think that culling/hunting in specific areas should be permitted, but under strict control, of course. The income generated in this way can be used for further conservation efforts. I don't know how many of you actually had a face to face meeting with an African elephant- they are huge, strong, animals, and to kill one takes considerable skill. They are also gentle, emotional, and very intelligent- why Livingstone and others hunted hundreds of them, nearly to extinction, mystifies me totally. I watched a program about nature the past week [50/50, a South African program], where I learned about the annual slaughter of sea tortoises every year, in Borneo, if I'm right. Thousands are killed in honor of the goddess Kali; a Hindu goddess. Some are eaten, some are sacrificed. The slaughter is incredible! The methods used to kill the animals... actually, not: they are dismembered alive. At times in the video I actually heard their pitiful cries. It made me nauseous, and ashamed of the human animal. It also confirmed another personal opinion I have, that I will not share here. There are enough alternatives that whales do not need to be hunted for food. I have never found any of the so-called research about the whales that are killed. I can't imagine what research needs killing the whales anyway- a lot more can be learned from observation, and the occasional DNA sample collected. There are no research on any land or flying animals-especially endangered ones- that necessitates killing any of them. Every effort is made to study them using non-invasive techniques. Why should the whales be treated differently? I have a suggestion: why don't we study the human animal using the same deadly methods, and see what the response is. Maybe we can learn why we are so murderous, aggressive and hell bent on destroying the very core of our existence- the sea. Without the sea, the whole planet breaks down. Hey, maybe just the public outcry will teach us something about our psyche.
thumper 05-Aug-12, 09:48	Riaan You're far more knowledgeable about the elephant situation in your neck of the world I am. The only thing I can contribute is to encourage you to always remain a good steward. Your stewardship extends far beyond your boarders and in many ways these majestic animals (along with the lion) are the symbols of your continent to many across the world.

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