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bears1
28-Jul-12, 01:26

Help needed with my games''
Anyone that is in need or is able to offer help with games..please leave a message...
let's do some unrated games and learn the art of chess from those that have the gift..
brianinpdx
28-Jul-12, 01:40

bearz - the absolute best advice I've come across is learning some of the openings.

www.chessopenings.com

It opened a lot of doors for me.
rmannstaedt
28-Jul-12, 12:41

select and concentrate
on a few openings, at least at first. There are *many*, and some of them have a HUGE number of variations. What you I suggest is to look through a number of them, then select a two of three that you like - that "feels right" to you - and look at them in detail: what kind of play is there in them - lines of attack and defence, tricks you can use or have to look out for, common mistakes to avoid/take advantage of, etc.

The GameKnot database is, unfortunately, not suited for this. It is a good supplement, and it can be used to find, maybe, the openings that you would like to look at first. But in order to really learn what you can do with an opening there is, in my opinion, no substitute for books: it's simply the only, good place to learn the WHY of what is happening.

Once you know what you want, take a look at amazon.com (or amazon.co.uk, amazon.de, ... depending on where you live). Chess books, especially if used, are not that expensive today.

Speaking of books. If you want a good, well-written, reasonably thorough one-volume guide to (almost) all chess openings, then I can recommend "FCO: Fundamental Chess Openings" by Paul van der Sterren. I have it, and it's without doubt the best general chess openings book I have ever had the pleasure to use. It doesn't delve that deep into the individual opening lines; it does something much, much better: it gives you the ideas, aims and means, of the opening. In detail.

Oh, and remember: GameKnot is a correspondance chess site. You *don't* have to memorize the opening lines. But you *do* have to know what the opening is all about, or you will inevitably flounder when you pass into the great unknown...  
rmannstaedt
28-Jul-12, 12:51

PS
I see it like this: the opening is the foundation for the middle game. A good opening gives you the best possible start for the middle game. On the other hand, if you play an opening you don't really understand, you are handicapped from the start on.
Once you have a fair grip on the opening, start looking at the end game. Especially pawns and/or rooks endings; they are common, and it will give you a definite advantage in many situations.
brianinpdx
28-Jul-12, 13:00

@Rmann - very good point about the middle game. My team coach made me go over and over and over the queens gambit so I would "get it". Learning a few openings has helped me big time. And in some ways its opened my eyes to others -- Bird has become a recent favorite.

If a person skips over the openings, it seems like the mid game becomes a crusher / out of position etc.

I think we all continue to learn. Thats the beauty of chess :>
sonata296
28-Jul-12, 14:31

RE
I'd like to play some games with you bearz, if you want to
johnclark
29-Jul-12, 00:23

Use a chess program. That should help raise your score.
rmannstaedt
29-Jul-12, 02:49

no, don't!
Sorry, but that, johnclark, is easily the worst suggestion I have heard in a very long time - for all kinds of reasons. Let me elaborate:

1. When we say "chess program" we are actually speaking of three different things: chess engines, chess databases, and chess tutors. Of three, the only actually useful one - when trying to better your play - is the chess tutor. And tutoring is easily the worst and most primitive feature of the three. I have yet to meet a chess tutor feature/program that will actually teach you in a structured, useful way, rather than just ad-hoc comments on what happens in a game. I may be wrong, but that's my experience.

2. Chess engines are wonderfully useful - if you need a sparring partner. Playing a chess engine is like having your best buddy on tap: turn the knob and a game pours out! But bearz2 has - by today's count - played 2722 games here on GameKnot already. He is not a rookie. Playing more games is not what he needs right now.

3. Chess engines can also be used (and misused) to analyze situations. And yes - it is no secret - you can also use them to analyze games you are currently playing. But, here is the rub: not only will GameKnot eradicate you from their servers if they find out you are doing it, but also - it will not actually teach you anything. The most it can do is to point out which moves were good and which were bad and give you alternative variations. It will not teach you. It will not explain, in any useful way at all, *why* a given move is good or bad. It will simply point out mistakes and leave you to puzzle them over.

4. And here is a point I really, really, really hope you will read and think about: using a chess engine, to analyze a game you are currently playing, destroys the game. This is not a joke. It turns the game from a "me playing you" experience to a "me doing what a machine tells me to do" experience. Yes, it will help your rating. So, sure, you can have "fun" watching your rating climb... except, it won't be *your* rating at all, it will be the machine's! It won't be *you* winning games, it will be the machine. You will just be doing what it tells you to do. On a fun-level scale it may compare favourably with ... watching paint dry. Maybe. And if you stop doing that - if you try to walk on your own again without that crutch - you will lose. All the time. Because the machine is - always - better than any of us, and you will then be playing people with a much higher rating than your own. So once you have started, you either have to continue for the rest of your life ... or you have to leave. Fun-fun, yes?

5. Lastly: yes, there are people who use a chess engine to avoid making mistakes, fooling themselves to think that it is just "advising" them. Well, think about this: even Kasparov and Magnus Carlsen makes mistakes. If you remove mistakes from the game, how much of *you* is left then, and how much of the game is actually the machine playing? If you are a 1019 player without your crutch, and you win games against a 2000+ player with it... how much of that game is then you, and how much is the machine? I dare anyone using a chess engine while playing to turn it off - completely! - halfway through the game, and then watch what happens. Crumble, crumble, crumble...

Sorry for the rant.

But there is another thing. It may not be important for you, but it is important for me: chess engines are not fun to play against. So you will be destroying the game, not just for yourself but also for the rest of us.

PS: by all means - AFTER the game - use a chess engine (GameKnot's, for instance) to analyze your game and pinpoint the mistakes you made. That is a good exercise to do.

PPS: Chess databases are basically just storage facilities. They are useful, sure, but not for teaching/learning chess. Generally they work the same way the GameKnot database does: they store games, and you can use them to retrieve games and walk through variations played in different situations. More advanced databases are also useful if you have a situation you need to analyze, because they make it possible for you to note down and compare different variations in a structured way. But - they are not very good learning aids and this is not what bearz2 needs or requests here.
johnclark
29-Jul-12, 14:33

re: no, don't!
It seems Magnus Carlsen may have a more favorable view of them.

www.time.com
kneilca2
29-Jul-12, 17:36

Nice rebuttal: succinct.
rmannstaedt
29-Jul-12, 23:26

oh, really?
Did you read that article? Not a word about Carlsen's view on computers in chess. Quite the other way round really, (quote):
- Kasparov says Carlsen's mastery is rooted in a "deep intuitive sense no computer can teach".

But even if he did have a favourable view of computers in chess, how would that matter? He would be using computers to analyze variations and situations *before* playing. He would *not* be using a computer while playing - or do you imagine he would have a laptop with him on a side table to consult, while playing Kramnik et al?!
rmannstaedt
29-Jul-12, 23:27

but a nice article, btw.
Thanks for the link  
kneilca2
30-Jul-12, 06:49

Can a computer teach you to play better? Perhaps this is the question, not whether one should be consulting a chess engine during play.

"Maybe" to the first question.
"Definitely NOT!!!!" to the second.
rmannstaedt
30-Jul-12, 08:30

re: question 1 - can a computer teach you to play better?
Well, I can only say that in my experience nothing beats a good book. But... I am not really qualified to answer this question - my experience with newer chess programs is limited. Ten years ago I would be able to answer with certainty: no.
Anyone here have positive experiences with chess programs as tutors? Recommendations?
johnclark
30-Jul-12, 14:42

re: question 1 - can a computer teach you to play better?
I thought the posted article had an interesting point in saying that "[Carlsen] is one of a generation of players who learned the game from computers" and "To this day, he's not certain if he has an actual board at home."

I also find it interesting that the term "chess program(s)" tends to elicit an initial negative reaction with a lot of people- at least from what I have observed in discussions with different members and reading the various clubs' threads. I understand the vehemence brought on when a program is used during a game to unfairly give an advantage to one player over another but I do wonder at folks who reject chess programs entirely and fail to appreciate the new dimensions they bring to the game. I do not negate or minimize the value of texts. But the fact of the matter is that that technology has been let loose and there is no putting it back in the box. Even the new texts make reference to chess programs evaluating positions.

I too am interested to hear from people who have positive experiences with these program and how and when they use them.







kneilca2
30-Jul-12, 18:06

I used ChessMaster2000 to relearn the fundamentals of the game and use the succinct (I love that word) explanations when helping students who come to chess club at the school where I teach. I find the tactics exercises here have improved my game as well. So, I am a fan of technology.
pennsylvaniadan
30-Jul-12, 20:54

Many years ago, before the advent of on line chess, I had a little battery operated chess computer that had 20 levels. For several years, until one of my sons took it off to college, I used it once in a while just to keep in touch with the game. I believe the only way to improve at Chess is to lose. Whether it's a higher rated player or a computer, it doesn't matter. I know that a lot of better players will say researching past games by the grandmasters and reading books on Chess is the way to go, but I never got into that sort of thing. The bottom line----learn from losing----penndan
kneilca2
31-Jul-12, 13:58

One thing I know as a teacher is that there are different learning styles and some activities/exercises work for some and not others. A flexible, eclectic approach is one way to cover enough diversity to include more learners and cause more learning. In other words, if it works for you, it works. But, don't knock it unless you've tried it.



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