chess online
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 Fallacies exposedComment - "What is truly astounding, what I only understand now, is that an individual can obtain a firearm at a firearm show (we don’t have many of those here) legally, without screening, identification, or a vetting process in place; at least in some states. Unbelievable!" Answer - You're right it is unbelievable, and untrue. Here's how it really works: Say I'm at a gun show here in Washington State and want to buy a Winchester Model 70 chambered in .338 Winchester. I approach a dealer who has that rifle for sale. The first thing he will ask me is, "Are you a member?" A member of what I ask? A member of the Washington Arm Collectors (WAC) of course he responds. No says I. Too bad says he. You must be a WAC member to be able to buy a firearm at the gun show. How do I become a member I inquire? Well he says, you have to pay them some money, fill out a long questionnaire and submit to a background check. If the check comes back clear you will be accepted as a member and then you can buy that Model 70 over there. Will my Concealed Weapon Permit (CWP) be enough I ask? No it won't but it will speed up the process he informs me. Comment - "Those firearms include military arms!" Answer - That's also untrue. If you mean by military arms you mean a full automatic or select fire weapons, no you can't buy one at a gun show. They're class III weapons and aren't even present at gun shows, much less sold there. To even be in possession of a class III weapon without a class III license is a major felony. To somehow acquire a class III license takes an act of GOD. A gun show does put firearms owners in close proximity so if some other patron overhears the conversation with the vendor and happens to have a Winchester Model 70 chambered in .338 Winchester that he wants to sell, he can offer to make a private transaction with me. That would go something like this; So I understand you're looking for a Model 70 in .338. Yep, I'm going on an elk hunt and don't have a heavy enough caliber I respond. Well I'll sell you mine for $650 if you let me take a peek at your CWP.... When it comes to Armor Piercing (AP) ammo, the anti's spout even more gibberish. 'AP' ammo for a handgun is goofy in the extreme. Handgun ammo is comparatively very low velocity and most ,even 'AP', wont penetrate level II armor (concealable, lightweight, under your shirt armor). Almost none will penetrate IIIA and only the most violent unmanageable and very very expensive custom built single shots might be able to penetrate level III armor. Conversely, the .338 Winchester hunting cartridge fired out of that Winchester Model 70 the anti's say is an 'acceptable' rifle to own will blow right through level III armor. I only point this stuff out to clear up just a few of the fallacies being spouted by people who don't know what they're talking about. But man they say it with conviction!!! They keep spouting these and many more half truths and gibberish, trying to convince others that they know what they're talking about. |
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Gun Shows To summarize, however, is what you're saying is that to buy at the Show you already have to be background checked? It may appear that clearings aren't happening at the point of sale; but they are already done as a sort of pre-authorization to buy? On the other hand, that doesn't stop private transactions from taking place? DoK |
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The notion that there are no 'reasonable' laws concerning firearms ownership is just more disinformation put out by the anti-gun crowd. Many of the myriad laws concerning firearms are totally unreasonable. If an FFL dealer makes even the most minor paperwork error like not dotting an 'i' or crossing a 't' they could loose their license. Firearms are the most heavily regulated product in the country and the most assaulted of out Constitutional rights. |
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Thumper If someone has a solution to murder other than complete loss of gun ownership I want to hear it. There isnt one. |
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Stinky I can sell you a Winchester pre '64 Model 94 (that's a cowboy rifle) or a MAK 90 (AK47 variant) without having an FFL or providing a 4473. I don't have to ask or demand for you to submit to a background check or make you provide a CWP. It's my discretion. I can sell my own property if I choose. If I belonged to the Gun Club and had a booth there, I would be required to demand those considerations but as a private person I don't have to act as an agent of the State. An interesting aside is that gun shows are a favorite hangout for Federal Agents. They're 'undercover' of course. Their job is to try and trick the Gun Show merchants into violating some rule or regulation. If there are 500 people milling about the displays there will be 5 agents working the room. The problem is cultural. It has nothing to do with firearms. |
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For posterity 06-Aug-12, 16:47 DEBUNCKTION JUNCTION This will be a new thread that will appear whenever 'hate' statements and 'misinformation' appears from the 'we hate Obama' fan club. In reality all there talking points filter down from Corporate Interests like the Military Industrial Complex and Insurance industries, Big Oil, an the Pharmaceutical industries.This in turn is excreted to 'Foxnews' (unfair and unbalanced). Then it winds it way down to what i call the brainwashed Zombie foot solders. Always follow the money!!!. And you find the Truth. PS; Looking forward to pointing out the other side guys!! There will be no more debates just counter-point!!!!! PPS; DOWNLOAD the lawsuit filed by the Administration's against the 'removal of early voting days' in Ohio!! it says nothing about stopping the military from voting. Just filed to get the early voting days back. Once again you will see how they lie to us!!! sa 06-Aug-12, 19:13 In this country you are still free to speak your mind, almost whenever and where ever you choose. You should use good judgement however. You have that right due to the military industrial complex and many, many "foot soldiers". I thought it was the goal of civilized, educated and "enlighten" people to be open, inclusive, tolerant, and respectful of other viewpoints. You can't learn from others if you are not going to listen, discuss and debate others. bc 06-Aug-12, 19:41 i can learn 'nothing' from the right wing nothing at all. Except to blindly hate, distort, lie, learn how to fleece America,wage brutal unnecessary wars, help protect special interest groups,blindly repeat my handlers talking points,the list goes on and on. NO MORE!!!. There is no moral equivalency between the right and left anymore. In Regan's day there was but not it is gone. The right has stepped over the line and now is morally bankrupt!! And you people don't 'discuss' things anymore!! All you do is Attack Obama constantly!! a veritable mirror image of Foxnews!! When Obama had bin-laden killed Fox news said it was really Bush that did it. When Obama said ' you didn't build this' fox news distorted and took his words out of context!! it goes on and on day in and day out. I will not debate anymore. I will from this moment until election day continue to point out to people what horrible horrible misguided,mislead cruel people the followers on the right have mutated into. With luck and hard work the GOP will get cast out into the political trash bin of history where it belongs. And don't lecture me about the military. I come from a long line of people that served and bled for this Country!!!...Brigadecommander sa 06-Aug-12, 19:47 Well, like I said before you are free to say your piece... and you have, right out here for all to see. Now, you have to live with it! bc 06-Aug-12, 19:57 its not hard to live with the truth i want every one to see this!!! you guys speak lies every day about Liberals!! If you have me thrown off gameknot for speaking the truth then i will set up 20-computers and be back stronger then ever. Just imagine 20 new voices, legioncommander, divisioncommander,companycommander,.You guys still don't know who your dealing with!! I AM AN AMERICAN AND I NEVER GIVE UP,NEVER. thumper 06-Aug-12, 21:37 Do tell, who are we dealing with? |
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06-Aug-12, 14:37 Jobs spin hides continuing economic recovery!!! The Far right wing is trying its best to paint a bleak picture of the American economy despite good indicators that it is slowly ram-ping up!!.From filibusters in the Senate to attaching Abortion legislation to job bills or just completely ignoring and tabling good jobs bills in the house, they seek to under mind the recovery for there own interests. Shame on them!! They send out talking points to the mindless zombie-like reprobates they call there base and repeat over and over; 'Obama is destroying America'!!. Does it not sound like this Slogan from the Bush administration; 'There(Iraq) gonna hit us with there weapons of mass destruction'. When they knew all along there were no weapons!!..... sa 06-Aug-12, 15:22 bc Why do you take topics from other threads and reply to them here? You were in those clubs and you opted out. If you want to discuss these things, you should actually be in the club where they are posted, don't you think? Or, is it that you don't really want to discuss them, or hear the replies you might get? bc 06-Aug-12, 16:14 Because its my 1st amendment right to do so!! the spectacle if a bunch of far-right-wingers patting themselves on there backs for there clever falsehoods and lies is very comical and somewhat sad. And i want as many people as i can see what a bunch of puppets they are. Sorry i mean nothing personal!! If you like this type of messaging you will love my new 'Debunktion Juncktion' thread which will appear whenever misinformation is posted. It is borrowed from a certain Liberal news anchor on MSNBC!!. Discussion is pointless!! you know that and i know that. I will fight fire with fire!!! Frankly i am disappointed at the rather 'unsophisticated' level of discourse in these 'hate' threads...Yours truly.....Janet thumper 06-Aug-12, 21:31 BC I was under the impression this club was for other than political posturing and preening. Are you sure you want to go there? |
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Ok…. |
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