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From	Message
aussiespud 10-Aug-12, 04:14	A question Well here goes with my first Thread (and possibly last if ive not judged the vibe right) While I’m a bit hesitant about starting this one off, I’ve got a question that's been bugging me for a while and, although I’ve had few people here in Australia try and answer it, I still don’t get it. I’m posting it here coz, as far as I can see, there is a lot more debate about this in the US than there is here and that’s where alot of you guys and gals are from …so here goes … “How is possible for someone to be both anti-abortion and pro-death penalty?
itchynscratchy 10-Aug-12, 04:42	I am not american, and not someone who subscribes to either of those opinions, so I'm probably not the best person to answer. However, since I hold the exact opposite view I suppose the same critisism of my seemed juxtapostion can be levelled so if I may I'll answer the opposite question, namely: "How is possible for someone to be both pro-choice and anti-death penalty?" Well, I am anti death penalty because I don't believe two wrongs make a right, I don't believe you can ever rule out the possibility of incorrect verdicts (and so the consequences are much worse) and from a pragmatic standpoint the only people who gain out of it are the lawyers, being able to charge huge legal bills, that in many cases far outweigh the cost of life imprisonment, for lots of successive appeals (which I do consider to be necessary to minimise the chance of incorrect verdicts). Abortion is something I struggle with, to be honest. I am pro-choice from a purely pragmatic point of view. I just believe society as a whole is better off when women are allowed a choice of legal safe abortion. I don't agree with the argument that the foetus is 'a ball of cells' or any other oversimplistic term. I consider that to be divorced from reality. I just think the consequences of criminalsing abortion are worse than allowing it. In my ideal world the foetus and mother would have equal rights, but that's just not possible, you have to prioritise one or the other.
aussiespud 10-Aug-12, 04:53	Itchy Thanks for this...it actually maches my own views pretty well.. That's why I struggle with understanding the opposing position....it's the apparent contradiction about the sanctity of life and the role that State should or should not take.
thumper 10-Aug-12, 07:30	Spud I'll try to answer from an observers point of view. First we need to get real. Abortion is killing and the death penalty is killing. That's as harsh and as real as it gets. Obviously both sides have no problem with killing. It gets down to the reason to kill. Most abortions are performed because the baby is an inconvenience, the death penalty is performed because the subject purposefully did some very terrible things to other people. That's one explanation on how someone can be against abortion and for the death penalty. The sanctity of life people are a different group.
softaire 10-Aug-12, 07:44	for my part I'll agree with Thumper on this one. I am personally against abortion (strongly), but because I believe so strongly that the government does not have the right to interfere in our lives, I say the woman does have that choice... her choice, and it is not my business. At the same time, I say that an older person, on or close to their death bed, has the right to get Doctor assisted death and relieve themselves from pain, misery, and prolonged suffering. My question is how can we prohibit that and yet allow abortion?
itchynscratchy 10-Aug-12, 07:54	"At the same time, I say that an older person, on or close to their death bed, has the right to get Doctor assisted death and relieve themselves from pain, misery, and prolonged suffering." I completely agree with this.
astinkyfart 11-Aug-12, 09:31	I have never understood how someone can put an unborn child and a serial killer in the same category.
deadofknight 11-Aug-12, 10:17	itchy if you knew that the unborn were being put thru a miserable or painful experience or that it was an experience that hurt them, would you feel differently about abortion? Just a question. DoK
astinkyfart 11-Aug-12, 10:22	I think the question should have been how can someone be anti death for low life scum of the earth and pro death for innocent children?
itchynscratchy 11-Aug-12, 12:37	<<if you knew that the unborn were being put thru a miserable or painful experience or that it was an experience that hurt them, would you feel differently about abortion?>> Yes it would, which is why I support the existence of time limits. If it could be demonstrated that the foetus suffers pain or distress at the time limit then the limit should be decreased. <<pro death for innocent children?>> I think this wording is unfair, no one is ever pro-abortion really. I think it would be an awful thing to go through, and explained my reasons for supporting abortions as purely pragmatic. I have met many who feel that, while they support the right to a choice, they could not go take up the option themselves.

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