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deadofknight
13-Aug-12, 20:46

NO stand your ground
Boy, there has been a lot of of 'stand your ground' businesss flying around for it not get any traction….
The country has been torn apart by it….
This is exactly why you don't listen to the news….or the politicians...They haven't a clue. The facts are what you find in the courtroom. They are the ones that matter.

DOK

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Zimmerman defense lawyers won't argue 'stand-your-ground' in Florida shooting case
Published August 13, 2012
Associated Press

June 29, 2012: George Zimmerman, left, and attorney Don West appear before Circuit Judge Kenneth R. Lester Jr., during a bond hearing at the Seminole County Criminal Justice Center in Sanford, Fla. A Florida judge on July 5 granted bond for a second time to George Zimmerman. Bail was set at $1 million. (AP)


ORLANDO, Florida – The attorney for the man who shot and killed unarmed Florida teenager Trayvon Martin said Monday he'll seek to get the case dismissed using a traditional self-defense argument and not the state's "stand your ground" statute.

Mark O'Mara, who is defending George Zimmerman against a second-degree murder charge in the fatal February shooting, said the traditional self-defense approach is appropriate because the facts suggest his client couldn't retreat from a beating Martin was giving him.
Zimmerman's attorneys had said last week that they would use Florida's controverial "stand your ground" law, which allows people to use deadly force -- rather than retreat -- if they believe their lives are in danger.

"The facts don't seem to support a `stand your ground' defense," O'Mara said.
Martin's Feb. 26 death in a gated community in the Orlando suburb of Sanford first drew national attention on March 8, the day his relatives held their first news conference to lament that Zimmerman hadn't been arrested.
Martin was unarmed and walking back to an apartment where he was staying with his father at the time of the shooting.
Zimmerman wasn't charged with second-degree murder until 44 days after the shooting. During that time, protesters around the nation demanded Zimmerman's arrest, and the Sanford Police Department was accused of racism and incompetence.
Zimmerman, 28, pleaded not guilty and was released on a $1 million bond while he awaits trial. If a judge were to side with Zimmerman in a pretrial hearing under either theory, the murder charge would be dismissed immediately. O'Mara said that he would not have to invoke any part of the "stand your ground" statute under the strategy he plans to use.
"I don't' like 'stand your ground' because I'm not sure it's a `stand your ground' case," O'Mara said.
University of Miami law professor Tamara Lave said this change by O'Mara may be a signal that he thinks his case for self-defense is solid even without the special provisions afforded by "stand your ground."
"'Stand your ground' makes it easier to prevail under self-defense theory than the law that existed beforehand," Lave said. "I think what he's saying is his case is so strong that he doesn't need `stand your ground."'
Before O' Mara can address either approach, he is filing an appeal this week of trial Judge Kenneth Lester's recent decision to stay on the case.
O'Mara said it could take several weeks for the Fifth District Court of Appeals to rule.
"It's their timeline," O'Mara said. "They'll try to get to it quickly, but it could take several weeks. I still think he's a good judge and very fair... But there's a real question of whether Judge Lester stepped over his bounds."
Lester denied O'Mara's motion asking for the recusal earlier this month. O'Mara argues that language Lester used in setting Zimmerman's $1 million bond showed bias.
There isn't any new evidence to present to the appeals' court in regards to Lester's standing as the trial judge, O'Mara said. Instead, the writ he was hoping to file late Monday dissects everything Lester has done since the beginning of the case.
The brief is around 40 pages long. He dismissed the notion that filing the writ was done to stall the case, but instead is being done because that right would be lost if not invoked now.
With much of the administrative aspects of the case already completed, O'Mara said that they are ready to begin setting up depositions for the state's witness list. Specific dates for those to begin are still being determined, however.
O'Mara said they have seen about 80 to 90 percent of the state's evidence in the case and that they would start the deposition process with the first responders to the shooting.
The defense witness list is still being put together, but O'Mara said he expects it to include FBI personnel, former co-workers of Zimmerman and experts.
While O'Mara said they would actually like to move the case ahead more quickly, one of the other things complicating that desire is a lack of money in Zimmerman's legal defense fund.
O'Mara said the fund had about $60,000 in it, with $20,000 in bills that need to be paid. If Zimmerman's financial status doesn't improve soon, he may ask the judge to declare him indigent, and seek aid from the state to fund his defense expenses.
Meanwhile, Zimmerman and his wife, Shellie, continue to live in an undisclosed location somewhere in Seminole County.
In setting Zimmerman's second bond of $1 million, the judge mandated that he remains in the same county as the shooting, which O'Mara said "is the most dangerous county for him to be in."
He said they are both living "like a hermit" and are not working for fear of their safety.
O'Mara didn't rule out a future motion to have the bond terms revamped, and allow him to reside out of state.
"I want him safe, wherever that might be," O'Mara said. "If it's out of state -- so be it."


illinawek
14-Aug-12, 04:18

The law that existed before the "stand you ground" law was that one was entitled to "self defense." I think legally, the two doctrines express the same idea. But now I think the jury instructions are couched in different language, language that clearly states that no one has the duty to retreat from a potentially lethal situation. That makes a big difference in a lot of situations.
thumper
14-Aug-12, 08:19

I like how the AP writer tries to slyly insinuate that 'stand your ground' is some sort of tactic to weasel your way out of trouble for shooting someone;

"University of Miami law professor Tamara Lave said this change by O'Mara may be a signal that he thinks his case for self-defense is solid even without the special provisions afforded by "stand your ground."
"'Stand your ground' makes it easier to prevail under self-defense theory than the law that existed beforehand," Lave said. "I think what he's saying is his case is so strong that he doesn't need `stand your ground."'
illinawek
14-Aug-12, 08:46

Law Professors... don't get me started. They need to try a few jury cases before they know what they are talking about.
thumper
14-Aug-12, 09:20

Life is so much better in their carefully constructed and mutually protected enclaves where theory is life and life is theory and they are the masters of all that is worthy of their consideration. (humph.. holds back gag reflex)
deadofknight
14-Aug-12, 16:42

thumper, waxing wise.
thumper
04-Sep-12, 10:25

Illi
My Law Professor maintained a (semi-active) practice as a personal defense lawyer outside the college. He detested being called an 'attorney'. I worked a semi-full time gig for him as a paralegal/investigator for some extra money and to learn those rolls first hand.
astinkyfart
04-Sep-12, 13:52

I originally
thought that he had a good case for self defense, IF the story went as he told it. The cuts and scratches he received help his case. Now weather or not he made the situation worse by following the guy while holding a gun is the question. I think it could go either way. He probably did use self defense but at the same time he did not have to be there. Not sure how they will look at it.
chaz5
04-Sep-12, 13:58

... in any case, the question of "intent to kill" comes in ... Zim prob'ly didn't intend to kill as much as he intended to protect; and, a jury will likely consider whether Zim crossed that "intent" line to assess his overriding responsibility here.
deadofknight
04-Sep-12, 14:19

chaz---good assessment. I doubt he was trying to kill the kid. He probably didn't know he was going got be attacked either.



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