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dmaestro 17-Sep-12, 20:24	romney: let them eat cake "Silver spoon in mouth" Romney was caught on video saying he didnt care about the 47% who he claims think they are victims, want to live off the government and who would never vote for him. That he just wants power and doesnt really care is not really news to many of us who have followed his career and his flip flopping. Romney's excuse, his comments were accurate but not "elegantly stated".   Romney continues to self destructive as the micromanaging and mean spirited inner bully surfaces, IMO. Right on schedule as predicted, with morethe blunders to follow. Romney, the gift that keeps on giving! Now lets see the right defend their man...
chaz5 17-Sep-12, 20:43	... and once again, I hafta say it's too bad the GOP didn't come up with a more viable candidate.
dmaestro 17-Sep-12, 20:58	A stronger candidate would be hard for obama to beat. But i continue to think that the strongest candidates did not want to take on an incumbent and have to pander to the tea party at the same way time. Romney unlike say huntsman who would have been much stronger will flip flop at will.
dmaestro 17-Sep-12, 21:03	Huntsman was the one that scared obama the most, but the tea party blocked him. Now they will likely pay the price for their extremist views.
chaz5 17-Sep-12, 21:20	... perhaps the laws of Darwin shall prevail.
astinkyfart 17-Sep-12, 21:30	I knew you guys would pounce on that. He is saying that from a voter stand point and not actually feelings of care. You guys know this but purposely play dumb. He is saying that Obama is starting with a strong percentage of the vote. Do you really think he doesn't care about a huge percentage of the voters on a personal level? Chaz a viable candidate is not a requirement, Obama won last time. When Obama gave those speeches about us and them, no one from the left cared. He has been divisive throughout. No one cared.
itchynscratchy 18-Sep-12, 02:55	So he is saying that there are voters who he cannot convince no matter what he says or does to vote republican. In other news the pope is apparently catholic.
zorroloco 18-Sep-12, 05:21	stinky i call bs. did you hear what he said? "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what," Romney is shown saying. "All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to healthcare, to food, to housing, to you name it." The GOP presidential nominee goes on to say his "I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives." what he is saying is that half of americans are hopeless parasites and his 'job is is not to worry about those people." he has written off half of americans. but i assumes he wants to be president of all of us. i think he said what he meant.
itchynscratchy 18-Sep-12, 05:30	I think he's telling his audience what they want to hear, whether he believes it or not, but then I'm a bit cynical over this politics stuff.
itchynscratchy 18-Sep-12, 05:33	<<what he is saying is that half of americans are hopeless parasites and his 'job is is not to worry about those people." he has written off half of americans. but i assumes he wants to be president of all of us.>> I think he meant ''not to worry about those people'' in the sense that he can't get them to vote for him, rather than not worrying about them after the election. He goes on to talk about the need to convince the independent 10% in the centre, which is a point so obvious I can't believe it needed stating.
zorroloco 18-Sep-12, 05:36	great that he said this it is a good opportunity to debunk that right wing meme that gets repeated so often by certain folks. you know, the one that claims 50% of americans pay no taxes. this is the danger of making up stuff... your candidates/politicians start to believe them, and then repeat them publicly, and make fools of themselves. we saw this with todd akin repeating the stupid idea that a raped woman's body rejects pregnancy. now we see romney calling half americans hopeless parasites. who are those 47%? well... Romney was close — 46 percent paid no federal income taxes in 2011. Half of those nonpayers earn too little to pay any taxes, and half of them get there through tax deductions and exemptions, according to the Tax Policy Center. Of the latter half, 44 percent use tax deductions designed to help the elderly, and 30 percent use tax deductions that aid the working poor or children. The Tax Policy Center uses a family of four earning less than $26,400 as an example. After the $11,600 standard deduction and four $3,700 exemptions, they have no taxable income. But many of these people pay federal payroll and excise taxes, as well as state income taxes. The ranks of those who don’t pay income tax has swelled because of unemployment and underemployment during the recession and the sputtering recovery. More than 13 million Americans are jobless. Also driving an increase: tax policies pushed by Republicans. The Earned Income Tax Credit, greatly expanded by Ronald Reagan in the mid-1980s, is designed to give money back to low-income workers to increase their incentive to work. And a 2004 Tax Foundation study found the Bush-era tax cuts erased the income tax for 7.8 million families by lowering rates and doubling the child tax credit. Not all of those avoiding income tax are poor, however. Even 4,000 people earning more than $1 million managed to not pay income taxes in 2011 because of deductions, according to the Tax Policy Center. www.politico.com right. a family of 4 earning less than 26.5k, the elderly, the unemployed, and 4,000 millionaires.
zorroloco 18-Sep-12, 05:44	itchy nope. read again. especially this part... "There are 47% of the people...who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to healthcare, to food, to housing, to you name it."
zorroloco 18-Sep-12, 05:46	ouch read what david brooks, conservative commentator wrote. i think he nailed it. Thurston Howell Romney By DAVID BROOKS In 1980, about 30 percent of Americans received some form of government benefits. Today, as Nicholas Eberstadt of the American Enterprise Institute has pointed out, about 49 percent do. In 1960, government transfers to individuals totaled $24 billion. By 2010, that total was 100 times as large. Even after adjusting for inflation, entitlement transfers to individuals have grown by more than 700 percent over the last 50 years. This spending surge, Eberstadt notes, has increased faster under Republican administrations than Democratic ones. There are sensible conclusions to be drawn from these facts. You could say that the entitlement state is growing at an unsustainable rate and will bankrupt the country. You could also say that America is spending way too much on health care for the elderly and way too little on young families and investments in the future. But these are not the sensible arguments that Mitt Romney made at a fund-raiser earlier this year. Romney, who criticizes President Obama for dividing the nation, divided the nation into two groups: the makers and the moochers. Forty-seven percent of the country, he said, are people “who are dependent upon government, who believe they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to take care of them, who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it.” This comment suggests a few things. First, it suggests that he really doesn’t know much about the country he inhabits. Who are these freeloaders? Is it the Iraq war veteran who goes to the V.A.? Is it the student getting a loan to go to college? Is it the retiree on Social Security or Medicare? It suggests that Romney doesn’t know much about the culture of America. Yes, the entitlement state has expanded, but America remains one of the hardest-working nations on earth. Americans work longer hours than just about anyone else. Americans believe in work more than almost any other people. Ninety-two percent say that hard work is the key to success, according to a 2009 Pew Research Survey. It says that Romney doesn’t know much about the political culture. Americans haven’t become childlike worshipers of big government. On the contrary, trust in government has declined. The number of people who think government spending promotes social mobility has fallen. The people who receive the disproportionate share of government spending are not big-government lovers. They are Republicans. They are senior citizens. They are white men with high school degrees. As Bill Galston of the Brookings Institution has noted, the people who have benefited from the entitlements explosion are middle-class workers, more so than the dependent poor. Romney’s comments also reveal that he has lost any sense of the social compact. In 1987, during Ronald Reagan’s second term, 62 percent of Republicans believed that the government has a responsibility to help those who can’t help themselves. Now, according to the Pew Research Center, only 40 percent of Republicans believe that. The Republican Party, and apparently Mitt Romney, too, has shifted over toward a much more hyperindividualistic and atomistic social view — from the Reaganesque language of common citizenship to the libertarian language of makers and takers. There’s no way the country will trust the Republican Party to reform the welfare state if that party doesn’t have a basic commitment to provide a safety net for those who suffer for no fault of their own. The final thing the comment suggests is that Romney knows nothing about ambition and motivation. The formula he sketches is this: People who are forced to make it on their own have drive. People who receive benefits have dependency. But, of course, no middle-class parent acts as if this is true. Middle-class parents don’t deprive their children of benefits so they can learn to struggle on their own. They shower benefits on their children to give them more opportunities — so they can play sports, go on foreign trips and develop more skills. People are motivated when they feel competent. They are motivated when they have more opportunities. Ambition is fired by possibility, not by deprivation, as a tour through the world’s poorest regions makes clear. Sure, there are some government programs that cultivate patterns of dependency in some people. I’d put federal disability payments and unemployment insurance in this category. But, as a description of America today, Romney’s comment is a country-club fantasy. It’s what self-satisfied millionaires say to each other. It reinforces every negative view people have about Romney. Personally, I think he’s a kind, decent man who says stupid things because he is pretending to be something he is not — some sort of cartoonish government-hater. But it scarcely matters. He’s running a depressingly inept presidential campaign. Mr. Romney, your entitlement reform ideas are essential, but when will the incompetence stop?
astinkyfart 18-Sep-12, 06:06	Jeff I AGREE with Romney. Again, he is talking a about votes. There are people who are in the entitled group. If you don't think so you should get out more. I have had some tell me so. Its not that they are evil its just that they have few choices and the democrats have made sure they depend on the government. I have always thought this was a form of government slavery. Its too easy to have your housing, food, and medical paid for why should they work? Its a way of life, its generational welfare. He said nothing incorrect. Some people don't want to hear it but its true. Someday when 99% of America is on welfare we will have one party. This will make some very happy. The masses will be so much easier to control.
astinkyfart 18-Sep-12, 06:12	Also This just falls right back into the victim role. Libs sit around and just wait to be offended. Being the victim of circumstance is a learned behavior. Jeff, mixing lies with truth is part of the problem. He called no one a parasite. Get real.
itchynscratchy 18-Sep-12, 06:12	Jeff I have read the transcript, and watched the video more than once. Yeah, he's negatively stereotyping dem voters and then saying that he can't get them to vote for him on that basis. The characterisation is the part where he is pandering to his audience, I don't believe he would say this kind of thing in public, for fear of upsetting the 10%. His remarks can be paraphrased as: people who are X, Y and Z will never vote for me, so I don't have to worry about convincing them that my way is better. To win, I have to convince the 10% in the middle. He is emphatically not saying he doesn't have to worry about them when he gets into power, please show me where he says this. He makes no comment about what he would do once he gets in power, as far as I can tell, all the comments are aimed at how he wins in the first place, and in that context he is right, a large minority would never vote for him, but then a large minority would never vote for Obama either (but again this point is so obvious that it needs stating at all is quite funny). He is guilty of using a stupid sterotype and repeating the party line, but I don't think it's quite as bad as you are making out.
zorroloco 18-Sep-12, 06:26	itchy maybe not the part about not worrying about them. but when he says that 47% are hopeless, that they expect a handout, that is pretty harsh.
zorroloco 18-Sep-12, 06:27	stinky no? not calling them parasites? not in so many words, but tell me, what does this mean? "There are 47% of the people...who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to healthcare, to food, to housing, to you name it."
zorroloco 18-Sep-12, 06:28	and again, who are those 47% Romney was close — 46 percent paid no federal income taxes in 2011. Half of those nonpayers earn too little to pay any taxes, and half of them get there through tax deductions and exemptions, according to the Tax Policy Center. Of the latter half, 44 percent use tax deductions designed to help the elderly, and 30 percent use tax deductions that aid the working poor or children. The Tax Policy Center uses a family of four earning less than $26,400 as an example. After the $11,600 standard deduction and four $3,700 exemptions, they have no taxable income. But many of these people pay federal payroll and excise taxes, as well as state income taxes. The ranks of those who don’t pay income tax has swelled because of unemployment and underemployment during the recession and the sputtering recovery. More than 13 million Americans are jobless. Also driving an increase: tax policies pushed by Republicans. The Earned Income Tax Credit, greatly expanded by Ronald Reagan in the mid-1980s, is designed to give money back to low-income workers to increase their incentive to work. And a 2004 Tax Foundation study found the Bush-era tax cuts erased the income tax for 7.8 million families by lowering rates and doubling the child tax credit. Not all of those avoiding income tax are poor, however. Even 4,000 people earning more than $1 million managed to not pay income taxes in 2011 because of deductions, according to the Tax Policy Center.
itchynscratchy 18-Sep-12, 06:43	<<but when he says that 47% are hopeless, that they expect a handout, that is pretty harsh.>> Yeah no doubt it is, but he doesn't really believe this, his audience does. Romney will say and do what he has to to get the donations, just as he said and did what he had to to get the nomination. Romney doesn't seem to believe in anything, he just tells people what they want to hear.
zorroloco 18-Sep-12, 07:26	itchy how do you know he doesn't believe it? but you are correct. it does not even matter... he will say what he thinks people want to hear in order to get elected. he seems to stand for nothing. that is deeply disturbing.
chaz5 18-Sep-12, 07:41	... a more meaningful statistic would be to know how many folks are on perpetual welfare. After we deduct those on social security, receiving student loans, veterans' benefits, etc., that 46% goes down a lot, I'd bet. We could talk about unemployment benefits ... I think there may be better ways to manage this as a group as there is too much incentive to wait for that perfectly-suited job. Let's discuss more carefully who makes up that 46%.
itchynscratchy 18-Sep-12, 07:42	Fair enough, I don't actually know. I can surmise it based on his actions while governor, but I don't actually know what he believes. Then again, that's sort of the point, he is a presidential candidate and has been the de facto candidate for some time and I don't have any idea what he stands for.
thumper 18-Sep-12, 08:44	Another phony media rampage Left-Wing Site Unearths Video of Romney... Talking Like a Conservative by John Nolte **UPDATE: ROMNEY RESPONDS: Via Romney Communications Director Gail Gitcho: Mitt Romney wants to help all Americans struggling in the Obama economy. As the governor has made clear all year, he is concerned about the growing number of people who are dependent on the federal government, including the record number of people who are on food stamps, nearly one in six Americans in poverty, and the 23 million Americans who are struggling to find work. Mitt Romney’s plan creates 12 million new jobs in four years, grows the economy and moves Americans off of government dependency and into jobs. Brace yourselves; here comes another phony media rampage against Mitt Romney. You can already see the media-future bubbling up on Twitter as the usual suspects in the mainstream media chuckle with glee over how they're going to use leaked videos from a closed-door fundraiser to destroy Their Precious One's opponent, Mitt Romney. Naturally, the videos are already posted on sites like "Mother Jones" -- and others that are specifically designed to create the memes the corrupt media latches onto in order to pound away at Romney and distract from Obama's disastrous policies in the Middle East and domestically. So, just as the media did last week with Romney's perfectly valid criticism of Obama and the Cairo Embassy apology, it looks as though we're in for another week-long stink of media-manufactured outrage. But over what, exactly ? Over a conservative talking like a conservative and laying out facts. When I saw these videos, my first thought was, "Gee, I wish Romney would talk this way on the campaign trail." That sentiment is especially true for the video the corrupt media is going to pretend to be the most outraged over: PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT: There are 47% of the people who will vote for the President no matter what. Alright, there are 47% who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that they are victims, who believe government has the responsibility to care for them, who believe they are entitled to healthcare, to food, to housing. Well, gasp and egads. FACT: 47% of tax-filers in this country pay no federal income tax. That's not 47% of Americans, mind you; that's 47% of people who file federal income taxes. That's not only a fact, it's a crime... It's an absolute disgrace that this happens, and it's unfortunate Romney would choose to bring up this issue behind closed doors instead of every freakin' day on the campaign trail. The media is gearing up to beat Romney senseless with these videos, but if I were him, I'd make my own campaign commercial using those numbers and point out how they've increased under President FailureTeleprompter. Here's another leaked video. In this one Romney jokes about how helpful it would be to be a Latino in his run for president:... Romney's obviously as aware as any of us how out of control identity politics have become in America. This next video is deceptively titled, "Mitt Romney Admits Using Chinese Slave Labor," when the exact opposite is the case. Listen to the full story:... What Romney's talking about is a country so poor and filled with despair armed guards are needed to keep people out of those awful working conditions, and what Romney's talking about is how lucky we are to be Americans... The media can feel free to lose its mind all it wants. Honestly, I think the media gnashing its teeth over Romney has become nothing more than white noise to voters, and I have no doubt they will welcome hearing some tough and realistic talk against those riding the wagon instead of pulling it. www.breitbart.com
zorroloco 18-Sep-12, 08:54	thumper who are those 46% anyway? seniors, vets, families of 4 making less than 26.5k. moochers! and does he really think that "47% who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that they are victims, who believe government has the responsibility to care for them, who believe they are entitled to healthcare, to food, to housing?" so he thinks half of americans want a handout? why would he want to be president of a country in which half the population are parasitic moochers? the right wing spin meisters are working overtime on this one! the romney defense team, hard at work - and they are earning their pay!
thumper 18-Sep-12, 09:09	4 month old recording suddenly becomes 'news' Rodeo clown media frantically distract from Obama's foreign policy disaster Thomas Lifson As Obama's national security strategy lies in smoldering ruins (just like the Benghazi consulate), his outreach to the Muslim world a dismal failure, the media claim that the biggest story of the day is Mitt Romney noting that nearly half of the country pays no income tax, that they are not likely to find high taxes a problem, and that a similar number are dependent on the government. Even though the covert recording has been available for some time (it was made on May 17, 4 months ago) left wing publication Mother Jones chose to publicize it at a moment when it distracts from the dire national security threat Obama has plunged the nation into. We can't have the media focus on the blowback from Obama's policies, can we? Here are the comments in question. There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what...These are people who pay no income tax. Seizing on a phrase Romney himself called "not elegantly stated" in a press conference called last night, the media are pretending that this realism reflects a cold hearted indifference to the poor. David Brooks, who found the crease in Obama's pants so compelling four years ago, now declares the GOP nominee "Thurston Howell Romney" -- invoking a cartoonish stereotype of WASP inherited airhead wealth. Some are declaring that Romney has now "lost" the election. He is supposedly insensitive and not even bothering to reach out to a substantial portion of the electorate. Romney already has trouble relating to the public and convincing people he cares about them. Now, he's been caught on video saying that nearly half the country consists of hopeless losers. Meanwhile, the film and literary communities, so eager to defend Andres Serrano's "Piss Christ" and anti-Mormon Broadway hits, remain silent over the detention of a film maker by police over the content of a film he made. I commend Mitt Romney for not backing down from his comments. Let us have a debate over the fact that half of us bear no income tax burden, and half of us are getting checks from the government. The rodeo clown media can ignore the national security debacle underway in the Middle East, but that will not make it go away. I fear that it will forcefully be brought to our attention. Update: Doug Ross remind us that the Obama campaign wrote off the white working class vote: Speaking of "writing off" voters, remember this golden oldie from The New York Times? www.dailymail.co.uk Obama campaign abandons white working-class voters. President Barack Obama's 2012 re-election campaign will be the first in modern political history to abandon white working-class voters, strategists claim. www.americanthinker.com
zorroloco 18-Sep-12, 09:46	Deleted by zorroloco on 18-Sep-12, 13:06.
softaire 18-Sep-12, 11:03	z "do you hate americans so much? you think so little of 50% of your neighbors, friends, and family? or is it only 'the other' who is counted in that 47%?" There goes another of your defamatory, inflammatory comments once again. Whatever the reason may be, the fact is that 47% of working people pay no income tax and a lot of those actually receive more money back from the federal government than they had withheld from their paychecks to begin with. Stating the fact does not make somebody hateful. Stating the fact does not mean somebody thinks very little of neighbors, friends and family. It does point out that our government has not done a very good job. When you make those comments you show yourself to be undignified, trivial, trite, and without any good argument. It demeans the entire process here. (I know, I have done my fair share of it myself)
zorroloco 18-Sep-12, 11:34	softy i say that because i have shown repeatedly that these people are not moochers - they are our grandparents and parents, disabled homeless vets, families of 4 making less than 26.5k a year. these are mostly hard working americans. yet you and thumper just keep repeating the same tired crap and refuse to address the issue. you and thumper and mitt romney have this idea that these are free loaders. THEY ARE NOT! by your refusal to address this, and by your repeated stating of the falsehood that these AMERICANS are mooching, you are the one who is being defamatory and hateful. you are disparaging our families, friends, students, and neighbors. if you don't like the label, than address the issue. saying 47% of americans pay no federal income tax is true. but you should complete the thought with: But back to the 47 percent. There are two primary ways to pay no (or negative) federal income taxes. The first is to be poor, and the second is to be elderly. In 2011, of the 18.1 percent of American households who paid no federal tax (meaning, no federal income or payroll tax), more than half were elderly, and most of the other half were non-elderly people making below $20,000 a year. The other sliver, roughly one in 20 non-payers, were people who made more than $20,000 in household income. The reason being poor helps is because, with a combination of tax credits (like the earned income credit and the child credit) and deductions, many people earning under $20,000 a year can zero out their overall rate. The primary reason being elderly helps is that Social Security benefits aren't taxed as income, so if all (or most) of your income comes from your monthly Social Security check, your taxable income is marginal or non-existent. So there you have it. The poor and elderly. Read more: www.businessinsider.com so...the poor and elderly are you moochers and parasites. but you just keep repeating the same tired crap. and it is defamatory and hateful to attack the poor and the elderly, don't you think? or, do you think seniors and people making less than 20k a year should be paying federal income tax?
chaz5 18-Sep-12, 11:40	Deleted by chaz5 on 18-Sep-12, 11:57.
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