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softaire 09-Oct-12, 06:50	Quotation of the Day "Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen. Now add this: Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens."
thumper 09-Oct-12, 08:15	Good post Softie. Who's the author?
chaz5 09-Oct-12, 09:13	Softy ... ... just curious ... is mandatory insurance a product of government, of the insurance industry, or from the people's demand? Or all three? I don't recall all the history here.
softaire 09-Oct-12, 12:07	chaz I believe that "mandatory" anything is a result of government over reach. Certainly insurance companies can not mandate that we buy their insurance. Individuals can not mandate that other individuals buy insurance. Companies can not mandate that individuals buy insurance, although I guess it possible for them to mandate it as a condition of employment. Usually though I would suspect that they provide the insurance. So, that leaves government as the only authority with the power. I suspect that when you say "the people's demand" you mean that the populace has told Congress that they want to be forced to buy insurance. If that is what you meant, then I say that is wrong and incorrect as about 70% of Americans do NOT like Obamacare and think that it should be rescinded, revoked, spindled and mutilated. (To be fair, most people think it should be repealed and replaced with something better). What do YOU think?
chaz5 09-Oct-12, 12:15	... I've already stated my approval for mandated insurance ever since Mitt put it in place is Mass. Unless everyone is included, then those who need it couldn't afford it. I know you disagree. You said "most people think ..." well, I don't think that 70% is an accurate statistic. I like Mitt's original plan.
chaz5 09-Oct-12, 12:16	Softy ... ... BTW ... most insurance companies like it too; that is statistically true.
chaz5 09-Oct-12, 12:18	... 2nd BTW ... I used to reside in Mass. A clear majority of folks favored mandatory auto insurance when I lived there. What's wrong with that?
softaire 09-Oct-12, 12:21	Thumper I don't know. It was sent around the Internet by one of those loathsome Tea Party people. It does cause you to think however: When our employers create jobs, we make it difficult to verify the new employees are legally entitled to take those jobs. We make it easy for people not eligible to take those jobs to sneak across our border and take them anyway. If we do people taking jobs illegally, we are not allowed to apprehend them and send them back, or even to ask questions like "are you legally in this country?". We have made it almost impossible to stop people who are not here legally from voting in our elections because we are not allowed to ask for a photo ID which would indicate a good probability that the person was actually a citizen and entitled to vote. And, we have created a system of entitlements giveaways that refuses to ask for proof of entitlement or citizenship. Does that sound crazy to you too?
chaz5 09-Oct-12, 12:34	... you addressed that to thumper ... but you and i have discussed this before ... which item do you want to explore again? (if you do, of course)
softaire 09-Oct-12, 12:38	chaz I see your view and approval as YOU being willing to trade your freedom for the "security" of thinking that health care will be there for everyone. (noble but stupid, imho) You will find, unless we are able to prevail, that you have neither freedom nor the security of health care for everyone.
softaire 09-Oct-12, 12:40	chaz I DID address that to Thumper. I addressed you specifically in two others. But, if you care to discuss any of that, simply start up... I'm willing.
softaire 09-Oct-12, 22:15	chaz I guess you really weren't interested in discussing any of those, eh?
chaz5 10-Oct-12, 07:42	Softy ... ... but I asked you first which item you wanted to discuss; and which one have we not already exhausted? You already say what I think is stupid; is that the way to start a civil conversation?
thumper 10-Oct-12, 07:55	Chaz Can we surmise you were a big Ali fan?
softaire 10-Oct-12, 09:30	chaz I thought that we were having a civil discussion. I did say I thought you view and approval was "Noble"... but also stupid. I say that because of all the bad things we have discussed that Obamacare brings to the table AND yet it will not be able to provide insurance to everybody. In fact, from what I have heard and read, it will still leave millions of people not insured. You could address that and tell me that I'm wrong and that everybody will be covered. Or, you could address any of the other factors I mentioned such as: The restaurant industry has announced that they will be making major "adjustments" to their scheduling (workers schedules) systems so that most employees will be working under 30 hrs. per week (estimates are at about 28 hrs.) Tell me if you don't see the correlation here between Obamacare coverages and full-time workers now becoming part time workers. Does that sound like a "win" for the American worker?
chaz5 10-Oct-12, 09:39	Softy ... ... my responses will be short as I just had hand surgery on my right [writing] hand. It's OK since I'm on Medicare; but writing lefthanded one character at a time is slow. First, I'm only discussing; I'm no expert. I need to know who are these 'millions' of people who will not be insured. I had not heard that. Will they still not have access to medical care? IMO, everyone needs to have access. How would Mitt make sure these millions were covered at a reasonable premium?
softaire 10-Oct-12, 10:04	Chaz I have a feeling all that will be covered tomorrow night at the VP debate. Rather than discuss it now, I'll post a short Heritage discussion of facts and myths about Medicare. (Link below) Myth: Medicare will become “vouchercare” Fact: “There is no major Medicare reform proposal, including the Ryan proposal, that would issue future senior citizens a voucher (a certificate or coupon or a check for a fixed dollar amount)…” – Robert Moffit, Ph.D., former deputy assistant secretary at the Department of Health and Human Services Myth: Seniors will be at the mercy of insurance companies Fact: “The premium support concept advanced by Ryan relies on informed consumer choice of competing health plans, including traditional Medicare. Seniors would receive a fixed subsidy, higher for those with low incomes and greater needs. To attract enrollees, health plans and providers would seek ways to increase efficiency, lower cost, and reduce premiums while improving quality and customer service.” – Joseph Antos, Ph.D., former assistant director at the Congressional Budget Office Myth: Obamacare’s $716 billion cut strengthens Medicare Fact: “There is only one way to simultaneously spend trillions on new insurance subsidies, Medicaid expansions and other outlays and still make good on the future Medicare commitments: Cut an additional $716 billion elsewhere, or raise an additional $716 billion in taxes. The ACA does neither.” – Douglas Holtz-Eakin, Ph.D., former director of the Congressional Budget Office Myth: Competition won’t control costs Fact: “But the evidence shows otherwise. The Medicare drug benefit, which truly is a premium-support plan, continues to work incredibly well. The average beneficiary premium in 2013 will be just $30, the same as it was in 2012 and 2011, and just $7 more than it was in 2006. Overall, spending on the program is coming in more than 40 percent below initial projections. Competition and transparency in pricing are putting downward pressure on premiums and the costs of individual prescriptions. Seniors like the program, and competition remains vigorous.” – James Capretta, former associate director at the Office of Management and Budget Myth: Reform will end Medicare’s guaranteed benefits Fact: “…all major versions of premium support guarantee beneficiaries at least the Medicare benefits or the level of benefits they get today with access to new plans with even higher levels of coverage at competitive prices tomorrow.” – Robert Moffit, Ph.D., former deputy assistant secretary at the Department of Health and Human Services Myth: Premiums will increase by $6,400” Fact: “The House budget resolution authored by Ryan in 2012 contains a Medicare premium-support proposal that is significantly different from the 2011 budget proposal. … Any claim, in the media or elsewhere, that uses the CBO evaluation of the 2011 Ryan plan is fundamentally flawed and erroneous.” –Rea S. Hederman, Jr., Assistant Director, Center for Data Analysis and Research Fellow, The Heritage Foundation Myth: Medicare is more efficient than private insurance Fact: “On a per-person basis, however, Medicare’s administrative costs are higher than those of private insurance…Medicare administrative expenses appear lower as a percentage of total costs only because enrollees need, on average, more health care services than those privately insured.” – Robert A. Book, Ph.D., Senior Research Fellow in Health Economics, The Heritage Foundation Or, you can go directly to the site: heritageaction.com

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