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thumper 19-Oct-12, 10:07	Specifically vague It's no coincidence that the left has spent so much time trying to create the meme that Romney isn't 'specific' about how he plans to 'fix' the country and how he wants us to just 'trust him'. The meme is even regurgitated in this club. It's one of the centerpieces of Axelrod's campaign efforts and has been said often and with derision by the left. Repeated and magnified by the complicit msm until it's been accepted by many as a truism except, it's not true, in Romney's case anyway. The rationale is to divert and redirect attention away from the real perp and purveyor of the unspecific bromide and speaker of generalities. The blank slate (where YOU fill in the gaps between homey partially true stories and hopey/changy slogans), Obama. Remember when Nancy Pelosi told us that Congress needed to pass Obamacare in order to find out what was in it!? Well, Obama needs to read the teleprompter in order to find out what his policies are. That's why he can't be specific and people are starting to catch on to this fact. Obama Supporters Clueless About Second Term Agenda by Tony Lee 19 Oct 2012 President Barack Obama has not been able to run on his record and has not presented a second-term agenda. But now, even his supporters are catching on to Obama's lack of plans to fix the economy should he get elected. On Thursday, Obama campaigned in New Hampshire, and The Washington Times interviewed Obama's supporters at the rally -- and nearly all of them had no clue what Obama was even selling or proposing for his second term. Cynthia Malbon of Manchester, New Hampshire said: "I don't know," said Cynthia Malbon of Manchester. "I'm skeptical that anything much is going to happen. It's probably going to be worse next time around." "I'd like to hear just how he's going to accomplish [a stronger economy]," she said. "I was a lot more optimistic four years ago than I am today, that's for sure." Here's Ron Chito of Medford, Massachusetts: Asked whether the president has done a good job describing his vision for a second term, supporter Ron Chito of Medford, Mass., replied, "Not really." "If you're a good reader and you know what is going on, then you have a good idea what his policies are and where he's headed," said Mr. Chito, a retired utility worker who attended the rally in Manchester. "Hopefully, we can get more Democrats in the House and Senate so we can get a good jobs bill passed." At the rally, Obama -- as he has done throughout the campaign -- attacked Mitt Romney, criticized his plans, and played the abortion card. "He's got a tax plan that doesn't add up, he's got a jobs plan that doesn't create jobs, he's got a deficit plan that doesn't reduce the deficit," Obama said. "We don't need a sketchy deal." Romney spokesperson Ryan Williams said Obama offered "voters more misleading attacks to distract from his failed record, his reckless spending and his inability to present a discernible vision to move our country forward." "The president is out of new ideas, out of time and out of excuses to explain his failed leadership and broken promises," he said. www.breitbart.com
softaire 19-Oct-12, 12:25	Thumper What you write about the "left" and those in these clubs is "spot-on". The proof of that (if you needed any) is in one of the other threads where Chaz has continually been harping for MR specifics. I gave him my best answer for MR specifics. Then I turned the tables on him by asking him to choose any one of our troubled areas and give the BO specifics. He was entirely unable to do so. There are NO specifics and there is NO plan for the next four years.
dmaestro 19-Oct-12, 12:44	What you mean is you don't agree with the plan. Of course there are plans, budget proposals, etc. It is your side blocking and stonewalling, fiddling while Rome burns. I can't speak for Chaz but discussions go nowhere because you are too gullible and sloppy with facts and we retread the same ground already covered. That you claim there is no plan while romney has been all over the map makes it useless to continue.
thumper 19-Oct-12, 12:56	Softie Yes I saw that. You provided a great opportunity for him to step forward with some examples that any semi-knowledgeable middle of the road observer could provide, if present. Instead you got more chaff and flares, though not as belligerently as DM prefers to present  , a dodge and weave none-the-less. Hey, don't pay attention my left hand, check out this cool trick I can do with my right...
softaire 19-Oct-12, 13:01	dm Ok... I ask you to choose any one of those problems areas and give the specifics of a BO "plan" to fix it. I say that not only has there been no plan for the last four years, there is NO plan for the next four years. Convince me that there are specifics, or that there is a plan. And, btw, he has NOT yet passed a budget. There is no credible budget plan as NO democrat has voted for the President's budget plans. NO budgets in four years equates to out of control spending, $1.3 trillion deficits, and $16 trillion debt. Is that specific enough for you? How will he fix that?
dmaestro 19-Oct-12, 14:06	Obama cannot pass a budget, congress must pass a budget. Obama has like all presidents presented not only a two year presidents budget but a six year budget projection. Congress never approves that budget as is. As I have explained many times the federal government lives within a budget agreement or continuing resolution and appropriations constitute the budget. Passing the annual budget plan or framework has become entangled in politics but is not necessary for managing a budget. To discuss meaningfully we need to get off talking points and review the actual process.
softaire 19-Oct-12, 14:54	dm We are discussing the actual process. BO has submitted budgets that NO Democrat will vote for. It is a farce in order to be able to accuse Republicans of obstructionism. The Republicans in the House HAVE passed budgets but they have all be stonewalled in the Democrat controlled Senate. NO budgets are discussed and NO budgets get voted on in the Senate. Those are the facts. Another fact that you ignore is that with NO budgets we have had out-of-control spending to the tune of over $1.3 trillion per year, every year. The national debt has grown by over $6 trillion in BO's time. My question to you (speaking of specifics) is HOW does BO plan to resolve and fix these problems? WHAT is his plan? Do YOU or Chaz have any answer other than "we have already discussed this" and "we need to get off talking points"?
softaire 19-Oct-12, 23:13	I guess that DM is just as unable to answer a question as is Chaz. (They sure can make the pointed question. But they don't seem able to answer one)
thumper 20-Oct-12, 04:54	Unable or unwilling? DM seems to enjoy acting like he's in the know so he should be well versed in Obamanomics. Apparently that inside knowledge is too embarrassing to share. I can understand the reluctance if the goal is to avoid making Obama look bad.
chaz5 20-Oct-12, 10:50	Softy ... ... you fail to recognize that budgets, laws, legislations, etc. are two-way streets. The GOP has effectively blocked Dem proposals ... neither the Dems nor Reps can pass anything they want ... until there is cooperation and compromise, nothing will happen. You may claim that it's the Dems who are not cooperating just as often as Dm may claim it's the GOP ... but it is both; and, you know that.
dmaestro 20-Oct-12, 11:33	>>BO has submitted budgets that NO Democrat will vote for. It is a farce in order to be able to accuse Republicans of obstructionism. As I said, Congress never agrees to exactly what the President submits. That does not mean the Dems are opposed to everything in Obama's budget. It is as I have said a political game. >>The Republicans in the House HAVE passed budgets but they have all be stonewalled in the Democrat controlled Senate. NO budgets are discussed and NO budgets get voted on in the Senate. The House is supposed to act first. The "budgets" they have submitted are designed for political points with the tea party, they are not a serious attempt to pass a budget that can be agreed to. It is all posturing, not a serious attempt to pass a budget., I have repeatedly explained this and experts agree with this. Congress is stuck in the blame game, both parties are doing it to be sure. But until the GOP House gets serious, why should the Senate bother? >>Another fact that you ignore is that with NO budgets we have had out-of-control spending to the tune of over $1.3 trillion per year, every year. The national debt has grown by over $6 trillion in BO's time. That is right wing propaganda, not fact. As I said, the budgets are set by individual appropriations and continuing resolutions and the government is not overspending their budget. If the Congress does not appropriate money, the government shuts down, and the GOP learned that wasn't a popular move. So there are budgets, you just don't understand the process. And there is NO out of control spending. Obama is NOT spending more. The budget was already running deficits when Obama took office, and it is the LACK of REVENUE do the economy that is causing the deficit, NOT massive spending sprees. I would love to have meaningful discussions but unlike Chaz you seem unwilling to address what is actually going on.

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