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softaire 05-Dec-12, 10:55	Lobbyists Here is a good article and Bill Moyer video discussing the corruption of Obamacare under Obama AND the corruption of military/industrial complex under Bush. It basically explains how we all are getting ripped-off by the revolving door of lobbyists and governmental positions. Those politicians sure do know how to raise their incomes, and our costs. www.guardian.co.uk
dmaestro 05-Dec-12, 17:50	Softaire as I have before said legislation is written by lower paid staffers with input from lobbyists, not for the most part by elected representatives who are busy elsewhere. These staffers are guaranteed large salaries because their connections are invaluable. I knew all along obamacare was written to pacify the health industry as a price for passing it. I knew all along that senior military are guaranteed jobs paying well into the six figures by government contractors who actually charge more than civilian labor (70% of the total department of defense workforce is defense contractors). But we need healthcare and we need defense in the meantime.
softaire 05-Dec-12, 18:04	So, you know all this goes on and it seems to be OK with you. First of all, I distinctly remember BO making the campaign pledge that he would not have any lobbyists in his cabinet (or maybe administration) and that he would "rid" Washington of that policy. (didn't really happen though, did it... another lie) Secondly, legislators may not actually write the legislation but they are responsible for it. It is their job to propose and pass legislation. I remember the stink about the Stimulus and Obamacare being rammed down their throats and NOBODY had time to read it. I doubt that there was the interest even if there were the time. So, we still have this corrupt government policy of allowing, encouraging, and using the revolving door with lobbyists.
changeling 05-Dec-12, 19:36	softy Have you not thought yet that the promise made by Obama on this subject has been almost impossible due to the inherent corruption over many years (I'm not blaming any particular party or administration either!), this is simply ingrained within the system, much as defense and healthcare. The lobbyists do not appear to be in positions in a cabinet or the administration, they work outside by using monetary promises to the politicians from whatever organisation they represent, be that corporations or unions. It is just a merry-go-round for all. If it takes legislation to stop this that in itself is the problem if dm is correct and lower paid 'staffers' are writing legislation. It appears that the politicians (paid through the back door or not) are the the biggest stumbling block to change. How does anyone expect Obama to change this system in a short time frame? many politicians makes promises due to idealism, and anyone with any sense knows they are almost always not acted on for one reason or another (party line, lobbyists, etc.).
softaire 05-Dec-12, 21:34	change As I mentioned, it was just another lie BO promoted in order to get elected. He had no intention of actually trying to do it. And, as you say, other presidents have done the same. It's just the same ol' Culture of Corruption that has been going on for decades. Although this administration (imho) is much worse than in the others. So, try to keep that in mind as promises made get exposed as promises not kept. You'll see that what I have been saying will turn out to be more correct than not. You might want to keep watching the statistics that I have been mentioning all along, like: the national debt; the deficits; our credit rating; unemployment stats; GDP for the U.S.; the rate of inflation; the cost of food, energy, gasoline, heating oil, electricity; the number of people on welfare, food stamps and unemployment etc. etc. They will all be getting worse, or staying the same over the next four years.
dmaestro 05-Dec-12, 21:56	That is not accurate. It is true that Obama found that sometimes lobbyists were the best qualified. But overall his administration had far less than the previous one. As for solving the problems with the DC culture, that is like solving hunger and the GOP was not helpful. Why have you gone back to the Obama bashing?
changeling 05-Dec-12, 23:44	dm The trouble is no matter how many times this is proved "...But overall his administration had far less than the previous one..." the hard right refuse to believe it!

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