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thumper 16-Dec-12, 18:01	The modern culture December 16, 2012 A Needless, Senseless, Tragedy James Simpson Losing a child is the worst possible thing that can happen. Losing 20, as occurred in Newtown, Connecticut is a monstrous, indescribable tragedy. My heart bleeds for those devastated families. Their Christmases, their lives, will never be the same. Some have used this tragedy as an opportunity to vilify our "gun culture" and predictably, right up to the President, have said we need "meaningful action", by which of course he means more gun control. But guns are not the problem here. Throughout the last century, up until the gun control act of 1968, there were few restrictions on gun ownership, save the heavy regulation of automatic weapons. A kid could order a rifle through the mail. There were no Columbines, no Virginia Techs', no Auroras, no Newtowns. There were many people with mental illnesses, ADD, Asperger's, autism and other problems, although perhaps they went by different names. But these kinds of things just did not happen. What changed? What changed is that our society became unhinged from its bedrock belief in God. In earlier times, churches were filled on Sundays and people generally conformed to a code of decency and behavior accepted throughout society. We swore less, raged less, dressed more modestly, frowned upon braggarts and liars, respected authority and approached life with a modesty and humility borne both of hard experience and religious training. Of course there were exceptions, but for all our collective failings as human beings, we took our religions and our religious beliefs seriously. Organized religion, especially Christianity, demands a level of decency, modesty and humility that is largely missing in today's distracted, self-absorbed, ego-driven, anything-goes culture. And we are reaping the rewards. Back in the 1920s, a group of German Communists started the Institute for Social Research in Frankfurt, Germany. It would become known as simply the Frankfurt School. Its goal was to implement communism in the West quietly by gradually subverting popular culture -- a movement known as Cultural Marxism. Early on, these people recognized that Christianity was the single greatest impediment to the advancement of communism in the West and they set out to destroy it by every means possible. Soviet propagandist and organizer Willi Munzenberg articulated the school's goals: We will make the West so corrupt it stinks... [We will] organise the intellectuals and use them to make Western civilisation stink [sic]. Only then, after they have corrupted all its values and made life impossible, can we impose the dictatorship of the proletariat. Today their goal has been largely accomplished. We have been lured away from the moral anchors of our Judeo/Christian heritage, and the result is visible all around us: broken homes, endemic divorce, unwed mothers, convenience abortions, crime, drug and alcohol abuse, increasingly toxic sexual licentiousness - which brought us AIDS, among other things - and an increasingly ignorant class of people, so self-absorbed and unaware, they can't even name our Capital. Our culture is indeed becoming so corrupt it stinks, and it is not surprising that evil now finds such an easy home here. Gun control will not cure this. Stricter laws will not cure this. Stricter enforcement may not even cure this. The only cure is a healthy society, a humble society; a society whose strong Christian heritage used to make it uncool to feed off others, uncool to boast, uncool to have a self-serving attitude; uncool to ignore the Golden Rule. This is nothing new. The pattern has been repeated since the days of antiquity. When a society finds and abides in God, health, peace and affluence follow; when it forgets God, disaster is not far behind. We as a nation have forgotten God. www.americanthinker.com
changeling 16-Dec-12, 18:22	I suppose one could post that anywhere as it would also apply to any mid east or African Muslim country, except for the christian bit. How come Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Japan, Singapore, Sweden, Norway and other countries are not experiencing the same depth of problems within their societies the US face? Who or what is the real culprit?
thumper 16-Dec-12, 18:37	This modern US culture teaches our kids to have sex and kill any baby that results, unless of course the baby is used to get more food stamps. Disrespecting their parents is expected and mocking their religious beliefs is required. Getting high and living off the dole is their right. Rich or successful people are greedy and should be hated. Actors are wise and should be revered. Conservative ideology is archaic and has no place in modern society, the same goes with the constitution, except the part that talks about free healthcare and abortions. Everyone deserves top wages no matter what job they may do. The color of a person's skin is more important than the content of their character. These are just some of the things the libs are teaching. We see the results of these teachings every day and it's only going to get worse.
changeling 16-Dec-12, 19:18	Welcome to the world of 'Pop culture', started in the US I believe. Is it really the 'Libs' teaching these things, or an awareness of self formulating in spite of religious attitudes? One must admit that the religious fruitcakes have a far larger soap box these days to spout their rubbish from than they ever did decades ago (westboro baptist church and so on spring to mind!).
softaire 16-Dec-12, 21:54	Thumper I have been struggling for some time to put words to my thoughts as to how this can happen, and why. Your James Simpson article summarizes it perfectly. Thanks for posting it. Your reply above also is also spot-on. Both posts are exactly correct. It seems that Change wants so badly not to believe it. He seems to want so badly to believe religion, especially the Christian religion, is all fruitcakes and nut cases... nothing good comes from it. So, let me ask Change... in order to mourn the dead, where does everyone go? Do they go to a football stadium? To a government library? No, they go to a church and they will be going to churches for each and every funeral. Why is that?
dmaestro 16-Dec-12, 22:37	Religion offers many people comfort. But it breeds its own antithesis. The golden rule predates Christianity.
changeling 17-Dec-12, 01:31	softy Once again you have read my post with blinkers on. Please read it again with the differences in other western countries that are not having quite the same extreme end of modern western culture problems that the US experiences. You cannot simply dismiss the role played by modern evangelism as well as the extremes in Christianity seen every day within the US either. All these things play a role particularly when it comes to the youth or younger generations. The availability of overload of information is also a deciding factor in the increase of dissent with the establishment by the younger generations. The bubble of do as we say because we know best and what is right has well and truly been busted. We reap what we sow, it is not as simplistic as a question of a communistic and/or socialistic takeover as portrayed in the OP article. By far the majority in many western countries post WWII were not as educated as those through the seventies and eighties and thus were more malleable. The seventies and eighties saw an explosion in higher education and learning, since that time (seventies and eighties) it appears at times that education has been taking a backward step in the past decade or so, yes? Re the re introduction of creationism that is becoming a fairly big issue in some parts of the US (Texas for one). The youth of today know that is pure bunkum and it is being rammed down their throats in some places. Even your constitution specifically states that science is the way, not pseudo science. The answer is to find a middle ground, not a backward step into pure conservatism, nor a leap into liberalism (or socialism as a few here term it). Take a step back and really look. Although I am personally against any organised religion, with heads that simply rake in money from the duped, some of the family values and common sense values of both Christianity and Judaism in particular remain very valid. This is not to say that these values are not as common in say atheism, they are. I do not include other religions in this as my main knowledge is with these two, plus Islam. Islam is a no go zone as that particular one is so back in the dark ages that it can never catch up with the modern world.
changeling 17-Dec-12, 01:36	In direct answer to your question softy. Churches are the established places for funerals and mourning in the western culture worldwide. I have no truck with that at all. Churches have their place, but not in determining 'the' way of life in a secular nation. The US is a secular nation, it was intended to be that way. All the rhetoric to say otherwise is rubbish. Those who spout on about 'In God We Trust' and so forth, really need to read your constitution properly (as many 'outsiders' such as myself do).
itchynscratchy 17-Dec-12, 06:10	Is this the time to point out that countries of western Europe that have a lower rate of religiosity, also have a lower rate of violent crime? The idea that more Christianity implies a more moral society is frankly, total bunk.
changeling 17-Dec-12, 06:25	Oops! I wasn't going to go there itchy!
itchynscratchy 17-Dec-12, 06:31	Too late now! Can open, worms everywhere!
softaire 17-Dec-12, 06:51	Whether or not you believe in the influence of religion on culture and actions, here is what I see as has been happening for the last 60 years: As a nation and on average (certainly not all and these are not blanket statements) The education system has "dumbed-down" the average high school graduate and they are not prepared to participate in any socially relevant way towards running, or participating in the running, of a society. The political elites are now basically ensconced in life-time jobs and are unresponsive and unaccountable to public scrutiny. They are unaccountable for their actions. The nation has trended toward secularization and liberalism. Pornography, sexual deviations are considered normal and acceptable. Extreme violence is played out millions of times per day in video games, movies and television. The nation has become accepting of violence and desensitized to it. Many of the large corporations are acting immorally and not doing "their fair share". Government agencies are acting arbitrarily and unilaterally creating onerous rules and regulations. The news media has become the PR firms for their legislators of choice. We hide what we do not want the public to see or hear about. We boast the talking [points which we want to present. It has become a "ME" generalization with emphasis on how can I scam the system and get MY wealth or power from somebody else. That may or may not be related to the decline in "religiosity" but it certainly seems to be correlated.
changeling 17-Dec-12, 06:59	softy That is most probably the closest in agreement we have been in many a discussion. I'm sure we could argue 'certain' points or sentences, but all in all pretty close.
chaz5 17-Dec-12, 07:16	Softy and Change ... ... good posts. This has been a reasonable dialogue, with some good common-ground assessments. While I have little to add, both of you have come up with some good words that I find educational (to me) and quite useful overall.
itchynscratchy 17-Dec-12, 07:58	Softy I agree with most of that, there can be no doubt there are huge problems with the culture, most of what you talk about is mirrored here as well. (As an aside for the record, I see no problem with sexual liberation in principle, and neither do I agree that violence in the media necessarily leads to humans who are desensitised to it. As I do not wish to derail the thread I'll stop there, but if anyone want to discuss those opinions they are welcome to start a new thread if they like.) <<That may or may not be related to the decline in "religiosity" but it certainly seems to be correlated.>> It may be a cliché these days but the familiar trope "correlation does not equal causation" springs to mind. Religion is not some magic culture elixir that's going to fix everything, and the morality of people is not necessarily linked to their piety either.
changeling 17-Dec-12, 08:33	On the question of religiosity: I just read this piece about the first amendment in usatoday. I think it is worth some thought and perhaps discussion. usatoday30.usatoday.com
dmaestro 17-Dec-12, 08:49	If the reports that Nancy Lanza was a gun collecting survivalist and the son was a violent video game addict known to lack empathy and have violent tantrums to the point where he could not be left alone safely, how is that societies fault? She had too many guns in the house and was negligent. And the solution the righties offer is having armed guards and teachers at every school, along with going back to the good ol days and religious mythology. No we are not going back. Not acceptable.
thumper 25-Dec-12, 10:36	So you like where we're headed?
dmaestro 25-Dec-12, 11:43	Yes and no. Freedom and commensurate responsibility are out of balance. The country remains increasingly divided with no end in sight. The genie can't be put back in the bottle. We will have to wait for history to evaluate this era.

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