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 Long but interesting“I am a witness to history. “I cannot tell you that Hitler took Austria by tanks and guns; it would distort history. If you remember the plot of the Sound of Music, the Von Trapp family escaped over the Alps rather than submit to the Nazis. Kitty wasn’t so lucky. Her family chose to stay in her native Austria. She was 10 years old, but bright and aware. And she was watching. “We elected him by a landslide – 98 percent of the vote,” she recalls. She wasn’t old enough to vote in 1938 – approaching her 11th birthday. But she remembers. “Everyone thinks that Hitler just rolled in with his tanks and took Austria by force.” No so. Hitler is welcomed to Austria “In 1938, Austria was in deep Depression. Nearly one-third of our workforce was unem- ployed. We had 25 percent inflation and 25 percent bank loan interest rates. Farmers and business people were declaring bankruptcy daily. Young people were go- ing from house to house begging for food. Not that they didn’t want to work; there simply weren’t any jobs. “My mother was a Christian woman and believed in helping people in need. Every day we cooked a big kettle of soup and baked bread to feed those poor, hungry people – about 30 daily.’ “We looked to our neighbor on the north, Germany, where Hitler had been in power since 1933.” she recalls. “We had been told that they didn’t have unemployment or crime, and they had a high standard of living. Austrian girls welcome Hitler “Nothing was ever said about persecution of any group – Jewish or otherwise. We were led to believe that everyone in Germany was happy. We wanted the same way of life in Austria. We were promised that a vote for Hitler would mean the end of unemployment and help for the family. Hitler also said that businesses would be assisted, and farmers would get their farms back. “Ninety-eight percent of the population voted to annex Austria to Germany and have Hitler for our ruler. “We were overjoyed,” remembers Kitty, “and for three days we danced in the streets and had candlelight parades. The new government opened up big field kitchens and everyone was fed. Austrians saluting “After the election, German officials were appointed, and like a miracle, we suddenly had law and order. Three or four weeks later, everyone was employed. The government made sure that a lot of work was created through the Public Work Service. “Hitler decided we should have equal rights for women. Before this, it was a custom that married Austrian women did not work outside the home. An able-bodied husband would be looked down on if he couldn’t support his family. Many women in the teach- ing profession were elated that they could retain the jobs they previously had been re- quired to give up for marriage. “Then we lost religious education for kids Poster promoting "Hitler Youth" “Our education was nationalized. I attended a very good public school.. The population was predominantly Catholic, so we had religion in our schools. The day we elected Hitler (March 13, 1938), I walked into my schoolroom to find the crucifix replaced by Hitler’s picture hanging next to a Nazi flag. Our teacher, a very devout woman, stood up and told the class we wouldn’t pray or have religion anymore. Instead, we sang ‘Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles,’ and had physical education. “Sunday became National Youth Day with compulsory attendance. Parents were not pleased about the sudden change in curriculum. They were told that if they did not send us, they would receive a stiff letter of warning the first time. The second time they would be fined the equivalent of $300, and the third time they would be subject to jail.” And then things got worse. “The first two hours consisted of political indoctrination. The rest of the day we had sports. As time went along, we loved it. Oh, we had so much fun and got our sports equipment free. “We would go home and gleefully tell our parents about the wonderful time we had. “My mother was very unhappy,” remembers Kitty. “When the next term started, she took me out of public school and put me in a convent. I told her she couldn’t do that and she told me that someday when I grew up, I would be grateful. There was a very good curriculum, but hardly any fun – no sports, and no political indoctrination. “I hated it at first but felt I could tolerate it. Every once in a while, on holidays, I went home. I would go back to my old friends and ask what was going on and what they were doing. A pro-Hitler rally “Their loose lifestyle was very alarming to me. They lived without religion. By that time, unwed mothers were glorified for having a baby for Hitler. “It seemed strange to me that our society changed so suddenly. As time went along, I realized what a great deed my mother did so that I wasn’t exposed to that kind of hu- manistic philosophy. “In 1939, the war started and a food bank was established. All food was rationed and could only be purchased using food stamps. At the same time, a full-employment law was passed which meant if you didn’t work, you didn’t get a ration card, and if you didn’t have a card, you starved to death. “Women who stayed home to raise their families didn’t have any marketable skills and often had to take jobs more suited for men. “Soon after this, the draft was implemented. Young Austrians “It was compulsory for young people, male and female, to give one year to the labor corps,” remembers Kitty. “During the day, the girls worked on the farms, and at night they returned to their barracks for military training just like the boys. “They were trained to be anti-aircraft gunners and participated in the signal corps. After the labor corps, they were not discharged but were used in the front lines. “When I go back to Austria to visit my family and friends, most of these women are emotional cripples because they just were not equipped to handle the horrors of combat. “Three months before I turned 18, I was severely injured in an air raid attack. I nearly had a leg amputated, so I was spared having to go into the labor corps and into military service. “When the mothers had to go out into the work force, the government immediately es- tablished child care centers. “You could take your children ages four weeks old to school age and leave them there around-the-clock, seven days a week, under the total care of the government. “The state raised a whole generation of children. There were no motherly women to take care of the children, just people highly trained in child psychology. By this time, no one talked about equal rights. We knew we had been had. “Before Hitler, we had very good medical care. Many American doctors trained at the University of Vienna.. “After Hitler, health care was socialized, free for everyone. Doctors were salaried by the government. The problem was, since it was free, the people were going to the doctors for everything. “When the good doctor arrived at his office at 8 a.m., 40 people were already waiting and, at the same time, the hospitals were full. “If you needed elective surgery, you had to wait a year or two for your turn. There was no money for research as it was poured into socialized medicine. Research at the med- ical schools literally stopped, so the best doctors left Austria and emigrated to other countries. “As for healthcare, our tax rates went up to 80 percent of our income. Newlyweds immediately received a $1,000 loan from the government to establish a household. We had big programs for families. “All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing. “We had another agency designed to monitor business. My brother-in-law owned a restaurant that had square tables. “ Government officials told him he had to replace them with round tables because peo- ple might bump themselves on the corners. Then they said he had to have additional bathroom facilities. It was just a small dairy business with a snack bar. He couldn’t meet all the demands. “Soon, he went out of business. If the government owned the large businesses and not many small ones existed, it could be in control. “We had consumer protection, too Austrian kids loyal to Hitler “We were told how to shop and what to buy. Free enterprise was essentially abolished. We had a planning agency specially designed for farmers. The agents would go to the farms, count the live-stock, and then tell the farmers what to produce, and how to produce it. “In 1944, I was a student teacher in a small village in the Alps. The villagers were surrounded by mountain passes which, in the winter, were closed off with snow, causing people to be isolated. “So people intermarried and offspring were sometimes retarded. When I arrived, I was told there were 15 mentally retarded adults, but they were all useful and did good man- ual work. “I knew one, named Vincent, very well. He was a janitor of the school. One day I looked out the window and saw Vincent and others getting into a van. “I asked my superior where they were going. She said to an institution where the State Health Department would teach them a trade, and to read and write. The families were required to sign papers with a little clause that they could not visit for 6 months. “They were told visits would interfere with the program and might cause homesickness. “As time passed, letters started to dribble back saying these people died a natural, merciful death. The villagers were not fooled. We suspected what was happening. Those people left in excellent physical health and all died within 6 months. We called this euthanasia. “Next came gun registration. People were getting injured by guns. Hitler said that the real way to catch criminals (we still had a few) was by matching serial numbers on guns. Most citizens were law abiding and dutifully marched to the police station to register their firearms. Not long afterwards, the police said that it was best for everyone to turn in their guns. The authorities already knew who had them, so it was futile not to comply voluntarily. “No more freedom of speech. Anyone who said something against the government was taken away. We knew many people who were arrested, not only Jews, but also priests and ministers who spoke up. “Totalitarianism didn’t come quickly, it took 5 years from 1938 until 1943, to realize full dictatorship in Austria. Had it happened overnight, my countrymen would have fought to the last breath. Instead, we had creeping gradualism. Now, our only weapons were broom handles. The whole idea sounds almost unbelievable that the state, little by little eroded our freedom.” “This is my eye-witness account. “It’s true. Those of us who sailed past the Statue of Liberty came to a country of unbelievable freedom and opportunity. “America is truly is the greatest country in the world. “Don’t let freedom slip away. “After America, there is no place to go.” Kitty Werthmann |
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Stinky The story is not possible. Never happened. Could never happen. And, certainly could never happen in a progressive "Western" developed country that has "rights" stated on paper and guaranteed by the full faith, credit, and force of the central government. Nope, not possible. |
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Fear mongering rubbish. Yes the lady (Kitty Werthman) is quite well known, no one denies her story, in fact there are hundreds just like it (I knew an old lady when I was very young who would talk about this stuff on a daily basis). Yes Hitler was voted in by the people of Germany, yes Hitler annexed Austria. No one denies this stuff. It is curious that the democrats (left) of politics in the US I presume is now being aligned with the Hitler movement of 1933 by you guys! Do you (stinky, softy) really think 'Obama' will run the US so far into the ground and then implement the same ideals as Hitler into the populace? That is insanity, could never happen, after all you are all armed to take on the big bad government, right? Using an old lady's story in this way is a little reprehensible and an insult to over half your population at least. |
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change Why do you have so much faith in government that you don't think it possible for a government to become a totalitarian dictatorship? I'm assuming you do understand that it has been happening since the dawn of civilization. So, why are you so confident it can't happen again in this day and age? |
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stinky: I don't feel the need to defend Obama (I think he does that quite well himself), but his party is in power in the US, who else could you be talking about, a future government? So, what other reason have you for posting Kitty Werthman's recollections other than to 'warn' against the same thing happening in the US (or anywhere else) in light of all the rhetoric being bandied about over gun control/restrictions? No one as yet has advocated banning firearms to the general public in the US. |
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by AWR Hawkins 1 Jan 2013, 2:01 AM Stanislav Mishin is a Russian who knows his history -- particularly the history of how the Russian people were robbed of freedom once they were disarmed by Lenin & Co. after the Russian revolution in 1917. He knows how the newly born Soviet Union then acted with impunity toward defenseless citizens, carrying out "mass deportations, mass murder, [and even] mass starvation." This is why his message to the American people is very clear -- "never give up your guns." Writing in Pravda over the weekend, Mishin pointed out how the world that was once enchanted with America has become less and less so as America has moved more and more toward a socialistic framework. The one thing people have continued to admire is America's long held right to keep and bear arms, according to Mishin, yet now Obama and the Democrats are threatening to take it away as well. Writes Mishin: "This will probably come as a shock to most of my Western readers, but at one point Russia was one of the most heavily armed societies on earth. This was, of course, when we were free [before the Russian Revolution]." After this, he goes through a list of abuses the Russian people have faced not only during Soviet times but under Vladimir Putin too, and here is his conclusion: "[Gun control] is about power and total power over the people." Speaking as one who knows firsthand how gun control eviscerates freedom, Mishin warns Americans: "Never give up your guns." We would do well to heed his warning. www.breitbart.com I suppose the question for us to study is 'why' the Russian armed citizen gave them up. To what persuasion or trick did they fall? After that persuasive trickery softened the people up, gun registration started. Then came the mid-night raids. Then came the decades of hell. |
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Change by Warner Todd Huston1 Jan 2013, 7:02 PM PDT13post a comment One of the lines that many progressives and TV talking heads are reiterating is that no one really wants to take away Americans' guns. Senator Dianne Feinstein apparently missed that directive. She admitted as far back as 1995 that she does, indeed, wish to take everyone's guns away from them. In a 1995 broadcast of CBS' 60 Minutes, Feinstein admitted she would love to have instituted an "outright ban" on all guns. Feinstein was the driving force to the failed (and now lapsed) 1994 “assault weapons” ban, and it was upon her success at getting the law passed that she made her admission. If I could've gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them -- Mr. and Mrs. America turn 'em all in -- I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here. This is not the way many lefties are trying to sell their latest attempts at violating the 2nd Amendment, of course. Led by President Obama, the latest tactic is to claim that no one really wants to take away guns and that any claim to the opposite is just "fearmongering." In 2008, President Obama went out of his way to tell the nation that he "believes" in the Second Amendment. I, I, just want to be absolutely clear, all right? So I don’t want any misunderstanding, when, when y’all go home and you’re talkin’ to your buddies, and they say, "Aww, he wants to take my gun away." You’ve heard it here; I’m on television, so everybody knows it. I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in peoples’ lawful right to bear arms. I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won’t take your handgun away… But I am not going to take your guns away. So if you want to find an excuse not to vote for me, don’t use that one because it just ain’t true. It ain’t true. U.S. Congressman Raul Grijalva (D, Ariz.) mirrored this tactic: "I think the majority of the American people want us to have a rational discussion that protects their fundamental rights and the Second Amendment, but also protects the public safety. I don't that's a contradiction," Grijalva said in July. This talking point is echoed by many in the media. During his "townhall" event on CNN a few weeks ago, Piers Morgan made the claim that he believes in the U.S. Constitution and doesn't support taking all guns from every American, despite his constant refrain that guns need to be banned. U.S. News writer Susan Milligan agreed, saying in November that there is "no evidence" that any one wants to take away American's firearms. The sentiment is also deployed by small, local papers, like that of the Albany Herald, who's Carlton Fletcher scoffed at the notion that anyone wants to take away guns. "Despite what the latest ultra-right-wing posts assure you is happening even now as you're reading this, President Obama and the United Nations are not putting the finishing touches on their nefarious plot to 'take away our guns,'" Fletcher wrote in September. Vice Magazine also recently engaged in this subterfuge. "Basically no one wants to take anyone’s gun away, at least not in America," wrote Associate Editor Harry Cheadle in June. Even the extremist, left-wing media-watching group, Media Matters, proclaimed any thought that progressives want to take guns away is nothing but "fearmongering." Senator Feinstein, though, is far more direct. This attempt to hide the left's true motives is not a tactic that she bothers with. Feinstein is quite open: Her goal, like that of the rest of the left in America, is to undermine the Second Amendment and take away all Americans' right to own firearms of any kind. www.breitbart.com |
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dmaestro 01-Jan-13, 20:50 |
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Change, DM " as dm just pointed out the countries mentioned where these atrocities happened were never democratic before the times stated when things went pear shaped for the populations." History lesson for DM and Change: ********************************************************************* People use the term “Weimar Republic” to refer to a period in German history between 1919 and 1933 when the government was a democratic republic governed by a constitution that was laid out in the German city of Weimar. Technically, the Weimar Constitution lasted until 1945, when the German government was formally dissolved in the wake of the Second World War, but most people date the end of the Weimar Republic to 1933, when Adolf Hitler took control and the constitution became effectively meaningless under his Third Reich. Under the Weimar Constitution, Germany was divided into 19 states. All citizens had the right to vote, electing members of the Reichstag or German Parliament along with the President. The President in turn appointed a chancellor and an assortment of cabinet members. As many historians have noted, on paper, the Weimar Constitution was a brilliant document, and Germany under the Weimar Republic was a true democracy. However, even from the start, the Weimar Republic was deeply troubled. When the constitution was first established, many Germans were highly suspicious of the new government, and extremists on the left and right rejected the authority of the Weimar Republic, undermining its effectiveness. While the government was theoretically a coalition comprised of numerous political parties, it was beset on all sides, making it difficult to assert its authority. www.wisegeek.com |
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softy stinky: We do not have a homeland security set up. We cannot be 'lifted' indefinitely without reason (we can be lifted, but it is for a limited time). Our secret service (ASIO) does not have the power of the US services such as the F.B.I., C.I.A., The Secret Service, Homeland Security, or any number of 'anti-terrorist' laws inflicted upon Americans at home. That is not to say the Australian government is without teeth if needed! There is NO executive power given to our Prime Minister (or anyone else). Yes I would say we have a more democratic nation, more freedoms. We enjoy (so far) a good credit rating, a growing economy (albeit small), reasonable unemployment figures, no outrageous debt caused by inefficient politics. Australia so far has dodged the financial ruin of other nations. Australia does not suffer the interference in politics by religious bodies that the US suffers (so far). Murder rates are a quarter of what the US has (per 100,000). Can you argue that the US is more democratic? There are of course (as always) downsides I suspect, but I haven't noticed anything in particular in forty years of living here. |
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change You don't see any similarities between the "easy pickings for an orator of Hitler's calibre" and BO who is acclaimed as a "master" orator? You don't see any similarities between a public being able to be duped as in the Democratic Weimar Republic and the U.S. population that have been (and are being) duped by our current crop of politicians? (Both sets of people wanted money and things and both sets of people have been promised things by their government) Another history lesson for you: The Weimar Republic was NOT "cobbled together by the Barons of Industry". It was "cobbled together" by the victors after WWI. The "Problems" cited are that the constraints put on Germany were very severe and too expensive to be handled by a recovering Germany. They could NOT afford the reparations payments and it caused them to print money, which caused massive inflation. They also suffered severely during the Great Depression. You don't see any similarities between the Democrat Weimar Republic printing money and causing massive inflation and the U.S. which has been printing massive amounts of money (and hiding the inflation for now) with massive inflation soon to be rearing its ugly head)? |
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softy "...So you don't see any similarities between the "Democratic" Weimar Republic and the U.S. which you say is NOT even as Democratic as Australia? (But you do admit that it was a Democracy, right?)..." By no stretch of the imagination can the US of now be compared with post WWI Germany. I see no similarities between post WWI Germany and the US today. Germany was a fledgling democracy at best. Yes they struggled enormously with reparation costs. The Weimar Republic was doomed to failure right from the start. And yes some of those industry barons still made lots of money, some even survived WWII, still with lots of money. Yes, I think Australia is more democratic for the reasons I have already given, one in particular, we have no one with executive powers to overrule the Senate or the House of representatives, as does the US, no 'one' person can enact anything. Barack Obama can not be spoken of in the same breath as Hitler in terms of oratory and magnetism of the masses due to different times, different problems, different situation of their respective nations (watch the footage of Hitler in action, I'm sure you have them many times). "...You don't see any similarities between the Democrat Weimar Republic printing money and causing massive inflation and the U.S. which has been printing massive amounts of money (and hiding the inflation for now) with massive inflation soon to be rearing its ugly head)? ..." The US is not in a great depression. Again different times and circumstances. Do you not remember when Argentina printed their own money practically out of existence just a few decades ago? They seem to have recovered fairly well. Do you think the US cannot? |
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dmaestro 02-Jan-13, 08:25 |
And absolutely Oz is more democratic and that is a good thing. The tea party would not be able to hold the rest of the country hostage in Oz. It is always amusing that Americans think might is right. Being powerful does not mean we have a better system. Elections that do not reflect the popular vote, a dysfunctional and entrenched government of parochial interests etc., nobody models their government after the USA anymore. Look around at how the world really looks at us, you should be shocked. |
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You guys say that there is no comparison between the oratory skills of Hitler and BO. You are wrong. You guys seem to think there is no comparison between the civilians of Germany under the Weimar Republic and the U.S. of today. You are wrong. The Nazi party was voted into office just as the Democrats have been voted into office. We have a President who will overrule the Constitution and make his own laws, just like Hitler. Is that an extreme statement? I'll provide examples over time here. We have the BO administration trying to eliminate civilian guns, just as Russia, Germany, China, and other places have done, all to huge problems. This government is debasing the dollar just as Russia, Germany, Argentina and others have done... all to huge problems. Nobody says that the U.S. is "more democratic" than Australia. Where did you get that? That is part of the problem. We have a dictator brewing here and it is only an emergency away, possibly. |
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You cannot possibly compare the histories of 'those' nations with of the US of A. The current administration (whatever you personally think) stopped the slide into a bigger depression than the US suffered during the thirties. It appears that is not only a personal view of mine but the recognised view of many in your own country, and around the world. What would have been your choice in how to deal with the financial fiasco that started in the US? |
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change I fear the loss of a Constitutional government where the President/Ruler/Dictator can make the rules for everyone by "Executive Order". I fear the loss of personal freedoms such that I am forced to buy commercial products that I don't agree with and pay money for things that will do what I do not believe they should be used for or will not be used for what I want it to be used for. I fear a government that can tell me what schools my kids and grand kids may attend, what subjects I may teach them and what I should believe or what I may not believe. I fear a government that devalues the currency so that after 100 years it is only worth 2% of what it was originally. I fear a government that continually borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends and thus places my kids and grand kids into more and more debt... which will be un-repayable, meaning that we will be back in the Feudalism society where they can NEVER EVER get out of debt. I fear a government that can spy on civilians with impunity and lock up civilians without trial for undetermined reasons and undetermined lengths of time, without review. I fear a government that can lie about current events and not testify to those facts so that there is never any conclusions about right or wrong and certainly never any accountability for wrong-doing. If you had any brains, you would fear these things too, because they are coming to visit you too, soon after America falls. |
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softy |
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Softie |
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changeling What's terrible about Obama is that he has averted nothing but has done so much. He has done TOO much to try to "save" the economy. He has spent trillions and then hundreds of billions on top of that and has done nothing. The problems are greater than the domestic United States. The biggest facepalm of the obama administration was giving/lending GM billions instead of just leaving the company alone. Don't even get me started on Jennifer Granholm's BS speech at the DNC. My silent rage is still simmering from that. But I bet you loved it and applauded and nodded saying things like "yes he did!!" ARGH!!!! |
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change There have been various frustrations, angers, and some fears along the way, but up until the last four years I have felt that Americans would not let these terrible things happen. I trusted that this last election would have most Americans seeing the mistake of electing the Socialists into power. But, I was wrong. Our public education system has dumbed-down Americans such that they know little history, understand little about government or economics (most can't balance a check book), do not know understand how business works or why it works, and have no concept of what real work, study or earning mean. They have no idea of what unrestrained printing of money will do to the few dollars they have in savings or retirements. And, they don't care because the government [promises to take care of them (from BO's stash) Americans have bought into the false promises of the socialists that they deserve things... they have a right to things and the government is there to provide it to them. This truly has become an "entitlement" minded society and if you don't receive what you think you deserve, you have every right to fly into a rage (sometimes killing innocents). You can demand that people with money must provide for you... simply because they have it and you don't. After all, You are entitled. America has passed the tipping point. More Americans feel entitled to money and things from the government than think it wise to be fiscally conservative and not spend more than we earn. As Benjamin Franklin said: "When the people discover that they can vote themselves money, the Republic is lost". |
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changeling You live in a country that practices compulsory voting. Guess who else does that? Pretty much all of Latin America, corrupt African countries and India. Some in Australia want to do away with this. Which is considered radical and extreme, according to your newspapers. But you're giving us advice and criticizing the US? I also see that someone shot a dog while it was being walked by its owner the other day. Hows that gun control working for you? |
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dmaestro 03-Jan-13, 10:27 |
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softy tat: I am as entitled as anyone else to have my own opinion, as you do. Where do I get criticizing the US? I assume you are referring to comments on the 'gun control issues' as you mention a dog being shot, as a comparison? Yes we have problems with guns at times here, yes senseless acts of violence are done here much the same as in the US. Not usually on such a grand scale though, particularly since our gun laws were tightened up considerably. At least you are starting to take notice of Australia in some way or another. You must have because the call for voluntary voting has only recently surfaced, guess who by? The Liberal National Party Coalition (some of them). This party equates to your Republican Party in the US. They also got beat in the last two general elections here after 11 or 12 years in power. This party (LNP) do not want those in our community who may be new here, or speak English as a second language only (slightly), or those who cannot be bothered to vote for whatever reason (the lesser educated and so on, or the economically disadvantaged who historically vote labor) to vote. Sound familiar? BTW: The fines for not voting are pretty small so anyone who doesn't want to vote can actually choose to do so (we don't get hauled off, or shot!). Yes I have the right to criticize the US or anywhere else, the same as you obviously have. These are discussion forums with posters from all over the world at times. I have been here for quite some time now, given that almost all subjects are on American issues or American involvement somewhere, we tend to learn quite a lot (as well as from lots of other sources) about your country. It's a pity that some here learn very little about other nations, especially ones aligned with the US. In here we learn things from actual people (such as yourself) not simply government spin. You can also criticize Australia as much as you want, but seeing as how Australia is a little insignificant pissant country that 'no-one' cares about, who gives a fig what any of them downunder think, right? Your ivory tower is a little crumbly I think. This country is far from perfect so fire away, I'm sure the few Aussies in here will answer and 'defend' any attacks on our fragile country. Every single decision your country makes in terms of foreign policy (or even directions in 'pop culture') has rather a large effect on this little corner of the world, and as I have mentioned previously (you must have missed it), our young men and women die at the side of yours in just about every single military debacle the US gets involved in on this planet. I also have quite a few family members that live in the US and have for forty years or more (which I'm guessing is a lot longer than you have been born), all this 'stuff' affects them also. So yes if I feel like criticizing your nation at times (which is not really too often over the past few years) I will. thumper: Yes you are a funny man . You are also a bit of a dinosaur yourself huh? Anything to say lately except insisting that everyone wants to take away your guns (which I don't think anyone has advocated anywhere in here really, at least not seriously, including me). There are many things I fear for the future for my country and my family (especially my grand and great grandchildren). I agree with softy on almost all the points he raised earlier. The beast of government has already been unleashed. What do you all want a revolution you cannot win? |
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