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 Guns in schoolby AWR Hawkins 12 Jan 2013, 7:55 AM PDT On Wednesday, the Montpelier Exempted Village Schools Board of Education voted 5-0 to put guns on campus. Their move will allow custodians to undertake training and carry handguns on the K-12 school grounds in Williams county. It will be a show of force and a real life defense against criminals like Adam Lanza. School board president Larry Martin said the crime at Sandy Hook Elementary forced his hand: "Our main goal is to offer safety for our students while they are in our classrooms and in the building. We have to do something and this seems like the most logical, reasonable course to go with." Superintendent Jamie Grime echoed Martin's sentiment: "There is a need for schools to beef up their security measures... guns in the hands of the right people are not a hindrance. They are a means to protect." www.breitbart.com |
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BY MARK REITER, BLADE STAFF WRITER MONTPELIER, Ohio — As the mother of three children in Montpelier Exempted Village Schools, Teresa Hickman calls the district’s plan to arm the custodial staff with guns an effective way to prevent incidents like the shootings in Newtown, Conn. Shannon Siler, the mother of two girls, says she is leery about Mont-pelier’s plan despite the training that she knows will be involved. She said gun control starts at home, with making sure weapons are kept locked up. “I don't have a problem with it. With all the shootings going on in these little schools this will make me feel more at peace,” said Mrs. Hickman as she waited Friday in her minivan for her two sons and daughter to be dismissed. Montpelier schools may be the first in Ohio to ramp up security by authorizing employees to carry weapons. The district has about 1,000 students in kindergarten through 12th grade and 75 teachers in one building in this Williams County village of 4,000. The school board voted unanimously on Wednesday to allow four janitors to carry their own guns inside the school. Mrs. Hickman, who learned about the plan in a letter the district sent to parents, said that the school district is taking a protective stance that could deter shooters from entering school property and could serve as a model for other districts. School officials said they began floating the idea of arming some non-teaching staff about six months ago in response to periodic national incidents of classroom violence. The Dec. 14 massacre of 20 students and six staff at Sandy Hook Elementary School provided the impetus for the school board enact the plan. Four janitors, all men, have volunteered to take part and are to undergo a two-day training course in March that will be paid for by the school district. Superintendent Jamie Grime would not identify the employees who have agreed to participate. Mark Earle, father of two Montpelier students, said that arming janitors to deter violence could become a standard practice for schools in Ohio and throughout the country. “I think some school districts have already implemented armed guards in schools to stop the possibility of incidents as far as violence with people entering the schools,” Mr. Earle said while he waited in his vehicle for his daughter and son to emerge. Shannon Siler said she was not sold on the idea of having janitors holstered with guns. She said she prefers hiring police officers to tighten security in the school. “I am a little leery. I know they are going to be doing all this training and stuff, but what if a janitor goes psychotic?” said Ms. Siler, the mother of two girls. “There is a need to beef up security. ... But, it all starts at home. Lock your guns up.” The unusual move in taking steps to arm janitors put the rural school district in the national spotlight. Mr. Grime, the district’s top administrator for five years, said he took numerous telephone calls Friday from national television networks and new services, including CNN and FOX. Administrators and superintendents from districts throughout the state called or sent emails to the superintendent to get information about the district’s plans, he said. “I am not proud of the fact that it has come to this,” said Mr. Grime, who has three children of his own in Montpelier Schools. “I am not totally in favor of having concealed-carry weapons in school. “But times have changed.” Montpelier Police Chief Jeffrey Lehman is assisting the school district in setting up the training for the janitors and has recommended instructors with the Tactical Defense Institute, based in West Union in southwest Ohio’s Adams County. Chief Lehman, who has been the village’s chief law enforcement officer for 12 years, said he has taken classes from Tactical Defense Institute instructors. He said the organization conducts classes for the National Association of School Resource Officers. “They have been doing this type of training even before Columbine and even before Virginia Tech,” he said. “This is something that is not new to them.” www.toledoblade.com Who knows the school layouts better than the janitors? Who knows better than the janitors how to most quickly and effectively navigate the campus? Who's the first to arrive and last to leave beside the janitor? Most of the kids already know them, they're already respected and accepted adult roll models they see every day and aren't the po-po. Easy choice. My only recommendation would be for concealed not open carry. |
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Personally I don't see what this is going to do. It isn't like school shooters intend to get away with their crime from what I've seen. This looks like an attempt to lower the death toll rather than stamp out the problem. Which I suppose is better than nothing, for the time being. |
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Musket How many administrators, coaches, teachers and janitors do you think already go to work quietly armed every day? Willing to risk jail and/or their jobs in order to possibly protect themselves and the students in their charge. How many kids do you think are now carrying weapons for self protection? Do you think kids have no access to weapons? After a point, people grow a backbone and will defend themselves whether liberals say they can or not. |
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I haven't heard anything about currently armed teachers in the system so I think that there would be very few who would go to school armed. Kids having access to their parent's weapons just highlights the need for proper regulations regarding the storage of weapons in the home. I don't see carrying a gun as an effective defence when you're placing it in the hands of somebody with two days firearms training and who has never shot somebody before. You'd be screwed if a Navy SEAL went rogue, wouldn't you? I certainly don't see kids with guns as anything other than adding to a problem. |
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Musket Many of the kids in this country are more knowledgeable about firearms that most adults in your country. So, some lowly janitor could obviously have no prior knowledge, experience or abilities with firearms beyond a two day course? You're obviously not from around here. Again, I happen to personally know a school 'janitor' and as it turns out, he's also an accomplished IPSC competitive shooter. Go figure. Rogue SEAL attacking a school? Are you serious? Paper tigers are best engaged with airsoft but I'll give it a try with my keyboard; A well equipped SWAT team would have their hands full against any SEAL, even if he was only armed with a knife. |
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dmaestro 14-Jan-13, 17:23 |
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Thumper And many of the kids in our country would be more knowledgeable on firearms than most adults in your country, your point? Knowing what calibre any gun is and how to clean it isn't qualified as combat training nor is it a safe guard against any lapses of judgement a kid might experience. You might know a janitor who is an experienced target shooter but last I checked, target shooting wasn't a prerequisite for being a janitor. How many janitors actually have military experience, really? Are you suggesting that Americans are inherently good at using firearms in combat without any sort of training at all? A rogue SEAL is a possibility; anybody can be a spree-shooter. This line of defence seems to protect against inexperienced shooters but what if somebody who knew what they were doing came along? Would four janitors of varying experience levels really be enough? And like I said, the possibility of getting shot has never deterred a spree-shooter before. If you think this is the end-all to school shootings then you're mistaken. |
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I will probably laugh louder. |
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musket This is getting a little silly and I find that comment to be pretty demeaning. Janitors (maintenance men, maintenance technicians, custodians) are usually pretty skilled at what they do and many have been in the armed forces. All the ones I have know are pretty "good guys". Why are you demeaning them and why do you imply they wouldn't have gone into the service? |
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www.youtube.com Right... kids can only understand calibres and clean and pictures and such. www.youtube.com |
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Softie It's already been shown that as soon as resistance is experienced, these cowardly shooters shoot themselves... the sooner the better. I really don't care if a school janitor has little chance of beating a Navy SEAL in a gun fight. That's just red herring, paper tiger, hyperbole. |
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Softy "How many janitors actually have military experience, really?" This is getting a little silly and I find that comment to be pretty demeaning. Janitors (maintenance men, maintenance technicians, custodians) are usually pretty skilled at what they do and many have been in the armed forces. All the ones I have know are pretty "good guys". Why are you demeaning them and why do you imply they wouldn't have gone into the service?>> What part about being a janitor ever implies you would have served in the armed forces? You've completely missed the point; for every janitor who served in the armed forces, there's one (probably more) who haven't. Where did I "demean" anybody? Is it demeaning to question the military background of a group of people? |
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musket33r 14-Jan-13, 21:03 |
Deleted by musket33r on 14-Jan-13, 21:29.
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musket33r 14-Jan-13, 21:16 |
Deleted by musket33r on 14-Jan-13, 21:29.
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Anyway 1. Two days of training is completely inadequate. Combat as taught to non-combat roles in the Australian Defence Force comprises of eight hours a week, 40 weeks a year, 2 years worth of combat training, and this is only for people who are unlikely to ever see combat. I'd imagine the American program at least matches this. Two days training is pathetic. I am not sure how one would teach another on proper close quarters combat using handguns and possibly other weapons as well as with no weapons in two days. 2. There is no guarantee that janitors have had any prior military experience. If this program was only extended to those who had then I'd have less of a problem. However unless a proper, comprehensive training is offered then I have serious reservations about offering security jobs to those are inadequately prepared for it. 3. This will not stop shooters who never intend to make it out alive, nor will it prevent any causalties from taking place. 4. There is always the ever present risk of another kid picking up a gun. This is not to say all janitors are incompetent, but merely that this could happen. I don't care if some kids in America are shooting champions and intricately know guns; it doesn't take a genius to realise guns are dangerous when in the hands of those who cannot comprehend their own actions. 5. Are armed janitors now expected to confront shooters with higher regard for the safety of students, or are they only supposed to engage them when they feel it is safe? Anyway, it would be nice to have someone tell me why they think I'm wrong in just one thread without somebody telling me that I know nothing about guns because all Australians are brainwashed into hating guns and that we all get shot every day. |
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I still hear that paper thin growling. |
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Now it's apparently outlandish to expect people, who are entrusted to protect the lives of others, to be proficient in combat. Apparently I also said something about conscripting unwilling janitors, I don't know where I said that. Is this what you envision armed janitors to be thumper, nothing more than a show of force even if there is no guarantee they'll be an even match for any would be school shooter? Funnily enough though, I'm apparently the idiot. How dare I question things. I should have known that freedom of opinion only goes so far. |
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musket I think you have missed the point of the arming and training of volunteers and you have tried to associate it with that being their primary mission. NO... it is not their primary mission. Being a janitor or teacher or principal who has a conceal-carry permit after proper training and licensing is a good method for protecting themselves, students and faculty plus visitors at a school... in the rare event that some wacko nut job decides to kill a few people. Assuming they get the required and recurrent training necessary, there is nothing particularly unsafe about it. It is certainly more safe than being unarmed in that rare event. It would have stopped a lot of the carnage, a lot earlier, at the school shootings we have already seen. And, it is a lot more economical than employing professional armed law enforcers to sit around schools all day, and after hours. I think your attitude that these people must have 8 hours per week (one whole day) for forty weeks for 2 years of combat training in order to be properly prepared in such a rare case is a bit much for the average person who simply wants to be prepared for the unusual and rare possibility of encountering that situation. btw... your non-combat positions require 2 years of combat training and preparation for forty weeks each at one day per week? Really... that seems like a LOT. |
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... are we teaching our children that those with weapons protect us? And, that if you want to be safe, you will eventually need to own a gun? ... what about those folks who do not like guns, nor being around anyone who has one? Are their liberties not compromised or eliminated by those who do have them? I'm having a hard time justifying janitors with guns ... and I need more substance than what I've read here to support it. Thanks. |
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thumper ... |
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chaz And, secondly, you do not have, nor have you ever had an opinion. Keep searching... one day one may pop up and hit you in the ass! But, I doubt you'd recognize it. |
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Nerf toy causes lockdown at Long Island school Posted: Jan 15, 2013 5:47 AM PST By LUKE FUNK, Senior Web Producer Elmont Memorial High School under lockdown on Tuesday, January 15, 2013. NEW YORK (MYFOXNY) - A lime-green Nerf toy gun caused an hours-long lock-down at a Long Island school on Tuesday. A 911 caller told Nassau County Police she saw a suspicious teen at about 7:38 a.m. Tuesday wearing a black jacket and carrying a black backpack at Elmont Memorial high School in Elmont. The caller said he was also carrying a lime green gun. A SWAT team searched the school room by room. Parents were allowed to pick up their children early Tuesday afternoon. They eventually found the toy lime green and yellow lever action Nerf gun in a student locker. Police did not make any arrests and the lockdown was lifted. School officials confiscated the toy gun and say it will be returned to the parents. Inspector Kenneth Lack says the heightened response was due to "an abundance of precaution." www.myfoxny.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents Furious After Young Boys Suspended After Playing With Imaginary Weapon January 15, 2013 11:23 PM Reporting Kai Jackson TALBOT COUNTY, Md. (WJZ) — Is it child’s play or a serious threat of gun violence? For the second time in less than a month, a Maryland child is kicked out of school for using his finger in the shape of a gun. Kai Jackson has more on the controversy. No one is debating the importance of keeping children safe. The question being asked is what’s child’s play and what’s not? Controversy at a Talbot County school after two six-year-old boys were suspended while playing cops and robbers during recess and using their fingers to make an imaginary gun. “It’s ridiculous,” said parent Julia Merchant This is the second time a Maryland child has been suspended for such play. Earlier this month, six-year-old Rodney Lynch was suspended from his Montgomery County school after pretending to fire an imaginary gun more than once. “Just pointing your fingers like this and then she did the pow sound and I just went like that and then I got sent to the office again,” Lynch said. The school reversed its decision after Rodney’s parents appealed. “They’re saying he threatened a student, threatened to shoot a student. He was playing,” said Rodney’s father, Rodney Lynch, Sr. “I do not believe maliciousness was involved here,” said child psychologist Dr. Joe Kaine. Dr. Kaine says most six-year-olds’ minds aren’t developed enough to understand why their idea of fun play might make adults upset. “I can certainly appreciate that at school, that’s not a type of play that they are going to endorse and I certainly support that, but that’s where we educate the time and place for doing things,” Kaine said. A number of parents agree. “Suspending them is a bit harsh and I don’t think that’s gonna do any good for the parent, child or school,” said Janet Geotzky. The number of suspensions has been on the rise in Maryland. School leaders say they will try to reduce those numbers. baltimore.cbslocal.com |
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Softy ... |
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www.breitbart.com |
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Insuring Guns ... Is this viable? |
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The problem remains with those unwilling to comply with safety and common sense. The problem remains with the mentally deficient, criminals and gangs. They will not comply and they are the ones who cause 99.9% of the damage by guns in the country. We need to stop the problem there. |
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