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 Black panthersBe sure to click on attachment in link. |
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dmaestro 27-Feb-13, 19:01 |
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DM Here is the original ten point program for the panthers. The original "Ten Point Program" from October, 1966 was as follows:[66][67] 1. We want freedom. We want power to determine the destiny of our black Community. We believe that black people will not be free until we are able to determine our destiny. 2. We want full employment for our people. We believe that the federal government is responsible and obligated to give every man employment or a guaranteed income. We believe that if the white American businessmen will not give full employment, then the means of production should be taken from the businessmen and placed in the community so that the people of the community can organize and employ all of its people and give a high standard of living. 3. We want an end to the robbery by the white man of our black Community. We believe that this racist government has robbed us and now we are demanding the overdue debt of forty acres and two mules. Forty acres and two mules was promised 100 years ago as restitution for slave labor and mass murder of black people. We will accept the payment as currency which will be distributed to our many communities. The Germans are now aiding the Jews in Israel for the genocide of the Jewish people. The Germans murdered six million Jews. The American racist has taken part in the slaughter of over 50 million black people; therefore, we feel that this is a modest demand that we make. 4. We want decent housing, fit for shelter of human beings. We believe that if the white landlords will not give decent housing to our black community, then the housing and the land should be made into cooperatives so that our community, with government aid, can build and make decent housing for its people. 5. We want education for our people that exposes the true nature of this decadent American society. We want education that teaches us our true history and our role in the present-day society. We believe in an educational system that will give to our people a knowledge of self. If a man does not have knowledge of himself and his position in society and the world, then he has little chance to relate to anything else. 6. We want all black men to be exempt from military service. We believe that black people should not be forced to fight in the military service to defend a racist government that does not protect us. We will not fight and kill other people of color in the world who, like black people, are being victimized by the white racist government of America. We will protect ourselves from the force and violence of the racist police and the racist military, by whatever means necessary. 7. We want an immediate end to POLICE BRUTALITY and MURDER of black people. We believe we can end police brutality in our black community by organizing black self-defense groups that are dedicated to defending our black community from racist police oppression and brutality. The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States gives a right to bear arms. We therefore believe that all black people should arm themselves for self defense. 8. We want freedom for all black men held in federal, state, county and city prisons and jails. We believe that all black people should be released from the many jails and prisons because they have not received a fair and impartial trial. 9. We want all black people when brought to trial to be tried in court by a jury of their peer group or people from their black communities, as defined by the Constitution of the United States. We believe that the courts should follow the United States Constitution so that black people will receive fair trials. The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution gives a man a right to be tried by his peer group. A peer is a person from a similar economic, social, religious, geographical, environmental, historical and racial background. To do this the court will be forced to select a jury from the black community from which the black defendant came. We have been, and are being tried by all-white juries that have no understanding of the "average reasoning man" of the black community. 10. We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice and peace. And as our major political objective, a United Nations-supervised plebiscite to be held throughout the black colony in which only black colonial subjects will be allowed to participate for the purpose of determining the will of black people as to their national destiny. When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly, all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariable the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. |
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dmaestro 27-Feb-13, 19:44 |
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Dm |
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dmaestro 27-Feb-13, 21:01 |
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dm I think that a lot of that is true, based on some personal experiences and tales from friends and also some readings. The 60's were a time of change that needed to happen. As much as Whites were opposed to the Black Panthers back then, I'm not so sure the Panthers were all wrong, or all bad. I am glad we have made the progress that we have made in the following years. I wish that more Blacks felt like we have made progress rather than thinking we still oppress them and owe them restitution. The one thing I can disagree with, at least for some small part, is that Blacks were not disproportionally drafted during the Vietnam War... at least they were not disproportionally represented in my Marine unit. That certainly does not cover the entire Army, or even the Marine Corps... but if my company was representational, then I'm correct. I never saw more than a "handful"... but some were good friends. |
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softy Any number of sites on the internet will give the same figures, and the disproportionate number of deaths associated with being black and in Vietnam. |
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"During the height of the U.S. involvement, 1965-69, blacks, who formed 11 percent of the American population, made up 12.6 percent of the soldiers in Vietnam. The majority of these were in the infantry, and although authorities differ on the figures, the percentage of black combat fatalities in that period was a staggering 14.9 percent, a proportion that subsequently declined." If these numbers are actually correct, I don't think that the difference between 11.0 and 12.6 percent is large or significant. It (to me) certainly doesn't show racism, which is what the message people who cite it want to imply. The "staggering" 14.9 percent fatalities is also said to have "declined" also, whatever that means. I don't mean to say their loss(s) were not significant. I just don't like people implying I was racist, or the Marine Corps was racist, or that the recruiting was racist during that time. I didn't see it. It may have been in the broad scale, but was not in my little areas. The more correct analogy would be the number of "poor" (both Black & White) that were there compared to the number of "Wealthy". And, those NOT there would also include those who ran away to Canada, kept in school, or got married. In all those cases, I would expect that it was many more Whites than Blacks who avoided the service. |
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I take your point on being (even circumstantially) called racist. I don't think anyone is doing that particularly! One question I have is this, is it more difficult to get into the marines (criteria etc) than other branches (even through the draft years)? Did this have an impact on you not seeing disproportionate numbers of black Americans in the marines in Vietnam? |
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change The only difference that I can think of is that almost all draftees went in the Army. You volunteered for the Marines. (About 1 in 20 draftees were assigned to the Marines... it did happen). So maybe my statistics are skewed because many more Whites volunteered for the Marines while many more Blacks were drafted into the Army. Now we seem to have a selection criteria. We get a better quality of recruits, we train them better, and we probably pay them better. They seem (to me) to be much more "professional", mature, and more emotionally stable than the bunch of misfits like me, Thumper and Chaz that were in the service earlier. LOL. |
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I agree with Softy that today's standards and training are prob'ly a whole lot better than they were in the 60s. |
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They're no smarter (have you seen the average HS grad?). They're no more physical (lowered physical standards, 'don't stress me' cards, etc.). I do admit they have better toys than we did but they're fairly easy to use. I will also allow for better basic hand-to-hand combat training (we had to learn and develop it later). All in all with equal weaponry and pitting 13 avg volunteer Marines from 'back in the day' with 13 avg volunteer Marines from today, I would guess a likely draw. It could go slightly either way. |
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Thumper The average high school kid, graduating from a public school or being old enough to have graduated from a public school, can't do any of that (imho). That is NOT to imply there are not some exception students... but those I think DO get into the Marines. It's not that we were so much worse, but this is a volunteer force and the services do have something to offer... the supply and demand favor the exceptional being allowed in while the average or less than average are not accepted. (I could be wrong... I'm "Old Corps") I will agree that the new breed doesn't have any bragging rights over us as far as skill, gumption, guts etc... just newer toys and better education, training. |
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We may be just "the kids" but Chaz is really the "Old Corps". Did you see when he went to boot camp? I think he must have been taking notes as all those events unfolded! But, yes of course, you are right... Those guys and those events are history, historical images of bravery, sacrifice... things that the average high school graduate has no idea about, no understanding of the sacrifice... things that are lost to America. The general public has no idea either. These are things that the left wants forgotten, history rewritten... it interferes with their agenda that we are dependent on government, that we can't accomplish anything alone, and that we are evil, racist, greedy. |
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dmaestro 28-Feb-13, 20:43 |
Made me think of this poem: ================================== JUST A COMMON SOLDIER (A Soldier Died Today) by A. Lawrence Vaincourt He was getting old and paunchy and his hair was falling fast, And he sat around the Legion, telling stories of the past. Of a war that he had fought in and the deeds that he had done, In his exploits with his buddies; they were heroes, every one. And tho' sometimes, to his neighbors, his tales became a joke, All his Legion buddies listened, for they knew whereof he spoke. But we'll hear his tales no longer for old Bill has passed away, And the world's a little poorer, for a soldier died today. He will not be mourned by many, just his children and his wife, For he lived an ordinary and quite uneventful life. Held a job and raised a family, quietly going his own way, And the world won't note his passing, though a soldier died today. When politicians leave this earth, their bodies lie in state, While thousands note their passing and proclaim that they were great. Papers tell their whole life stories, from the time that they were young, But the passing of a soldier goes unnoticed and unsung. Is the greatest contribution to the welfare of our land A guy who breaks his promises and cons his fellow man? Or the ordinary fellow who, in times of war and strife, Goes off to serve his Country and offers up his life? A politician's stipend and the style in which he lives Are sometimes disproportionate to the service that he gives. While the ordinary soldier, who offered up his all, Is paid off with a medal and perhaps, a pension small. It's so easy to forget them for it was so long ago, That the old Bills of our Country went to battle, but we know It was not the politicians, with their compromise and ploys, Who won for us the freedom that our Country now enjoys. Should you find yourself in danger, with your enemies at hand, Would you want a politician with his ever-shifting stand? Or would you prefer a soldier, who has sworn to defend His home, his kin and Country and would fight until the end? He was just a common soldier and his ranks are growing thin, But his presence should remind us we may need his like again. For when countries are in conflict, then we find the soldier's part Is to clean up all the troubles that the politicians start. If we cannot do him honor while he's here to hear the praise, Then at least let's give him homage at the ending of his days. Perhaps just a simple headline in a paper that would say, Our Country is in mourning, for a soldier died today. © 1987 A. Lawrence Vaincourt vaincourt.homestead.com |
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dm |
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dmaestro 28-Feb-13, 21:19 |
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I remember distinctly a very large group of Vietnamese in one spot in Sydney, watching and waiting quietly (around a thousand or so, all being gawked at by the locals who were wondering why they were there!). When the Vietnam Vets marched past (at the end of the parade) the Vietnamese simply broke through the barricades and swarmed these Vets with so much love and emotion it was a sight to see. Locals were astonished to see this. It turned out that every one of the Vietnamese made it here because of these Vets. Never forget softy, chaz, thumper and anyone else here. You guys ARE the heroes to many thousands of people, no matter what the politicians and media have said in the past. Your history will never be forgotten by those you all fought for at a very personal level. I nursed quite a few Vietnam Vets over the years since then, some with horrific injuries and trauma related problems. I was very lucky in that by the time I arrived in Australia they had stopped conscription, by then everything was supposedly winding down. |
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dm |
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change I think DM say a true and good thing: "Well, you do what you must and then time marches on and what was once new becomes old. Such is life..." What was, was. Things and times change. My wife just gave me a little present... a card that says" "Learn from yesterday, Live for today, Hope for tomorrow..." Good advice for us all. Thanks for your insight on yesterday! |
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Change Compared to me, both Chaz AND Softie are real Old Corps. |
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He was in boot camp way before my time. I can't even remember people his age. Chaz was a scribe at Triploli. He may have been the historian at Appomattox. He is older than Dirt. I, on the other hand, represent youth, vigor, health & energy. I am younger in spirit and energy than Thumper who is a actually getting on in years. He is the "new old corps" and must make way for the me "old new corps". ??? what did i just say??? |
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Thumper |
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