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theloneranger 08-May-07, 06:43 |
 Peaceful LiberalsI cannot seem to recall the last time conservatives rioted in the streets, just because they lost an election...........I am certain that opened minded qiwi and his socialist buddies will attempt to enlighten me however to the evils of Bush and Cheney and other known conservatives. |
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conservatives |
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Jeff If you don't agree with TLR, then point out a specific example of where he is wrong. Tell me where the last "conservative" group rioted in the streets because they lost an election. |
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i stand by my point |
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Never has the electorate in France been so polarised as in this election both candidates were hated by their opponents, the difference is that Sarkozy is also hated by many of the working class and the poor in France. He is extremely right wing far closer to Le Penn than Chirac and despite being the son of an Hungarian immigrant he wants to clamp down on immigration into France. From what i have seen and heard from him he is an odious man. He visited the slums on the edge of Paris some time ago and described the people there as scum and while this may well be true of some of them many are hard working but poor. The concern is that the rich are going benefit from his presidency but that the poor will be made to pay! One of the most contentious issues is his declaration that he will do away with the 35 hour week, which the poor and the unions fought hard to get. However although he has won this election to be president he has more elections to face before he gets a mandate from the people, they have yet to hold what is their equivelent of the Parlimentry or in the case of the USA the Congressional elections. If he goes through with his pledges there is likely to be more trouble on the streets, and France will be much changed. The French have a long history of demonstrations going back to the revolution, it does not matter what party has been in power the people in France have never forgotten (and will never let the politicians forget) that the government is there to serve the people not for the people to serve the government, unfortunately the same cannot be said for the UK!! |
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leo_london 08-May-07, 09:33 |
The French take to the streets and demonstrate regularly..left, right and centre. Their farmers have demonstrated ( not always peacefully ) several times in recent years..they could hardly be called " lefties ". As a matter of fact, I rather envy their tendency to get out and protest ( as long as it doesn't involve violence )...we ( Brits ) just moan to each other and do nothing. |
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Conservatives are financially stable, well educated, mature adults with a vested interest. Liberals are financially irresponsible, uneducated, imature youths with no vested interest. Conservatives show outrage by working within the legal system. Liberals show outrage by attacking their neighbors and burning their houses down. Conservatives work for a living. Liberals want to be taken care of. Conservatives are bad. Liberals are good. This about sum it up? |
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thumper but hey, you will read anything you want into anytjhing i say, so it hardly matters.... |
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theloneranger 08-May-07, 10:16 |
as an old proverb says............"He who works his land will have abundant food..............but he chases fantasies will have his fill of poverty." more then 35 hours working in a week...........the horror of it all!! |
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theloneranger 08-May-07, 10:37 |
Jeff is once again stereotyping wronglly and he is perfectly aware of it..........typical liberal diatribe.......who got us in to Vietnam...........a democrat...........who got us into WWII....a democrat.........Roosevelts, good strong liberals, how about the Kennedy's ......they are rich and powerful........the list is endless..........watch those who try to point the finger in your face with accusations,.......they are trying to divert the truth. The libs.....(socialist).........use the tactics that jeff is using to try and give credence to the violence.............the poor have no other way to voice there opinions.....it is justified against the rich and powerful..........seems that argument was used to fuel the take over of russia.........just to name one.............it is getting worn out and it is time that we conservatives wake up and squash they bs. |
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I would have thought those of you that live in the land of the free etc etc would appreciate the fact that people are standing up for the right to have a choice! Unless i am entirely wrong wasn't that what the Boston Tea Party and the subsequent War of Independence was about? The right for people to make their own decisions and not be forced to do as they are told!! The 35 hr week was one example of the changes he wants to implement France have a very good record and history of looking after those less well off and they have many exellent social benefits along with many very successful state run companies ie their railways and their health service having a socialist agenda does not necessarily mean it is bad, Sarkozy wants to do away with many of these benefits. Like many other dogmas you can pick out things that are wrong just as easily as the things that are right. This does not alter the fact that they are protesting about the man not the because they have lost an election. They do not trust him or believe him and many certainly do not like him. I repeat it should be to quote someone whose name escapes me!!! Government For the People By the People many in France believe that with their new president this is not going to be the case! |
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tlr |
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theloneranger 08-May-07, 11:00 |
Deleted by theloneranger on 08-May-07, 12:51.
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Jeff I see you have plenty of time to discuss in these threads but still have not put any effort into fullfilling your promise to answer the "what to do in Iraq" question. I thought you needed time to formulate an intelligent answer, but you appearantly have a lot of time to spare. It really isn't that hard to write out your ideas, unless you have no ideas. |
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softie i agree that islam is a violent religion. but many, many muslims are not violent. it is mostly situational...bad (or perceived bad) situations allow people to be convinced to be suicide bombers....as long as there is religion, there will be religious strife, and islam has a much stronger thread of defense of itself than any other religion i know of...which makes its adherents more prone to radicalism. christians and other religious people are also prone to this (crusades for example). we will never completely eliminate it. but, we can minimize it by not screwing around in everyone else's business unilaterally. that is the only answer i can give you. unsatisfactory as it is, i honestly do not know what to do. if we leave iraq, there is a dangerous power vacuum and god only knows what will transpire....another rwanda or cambodia? if we stay, we will simply inflame the antagonism, if we get more forceful and (to quote jd) glassify iraq, we will become international pariahs and still never defeat the region wide guerrilla insurgency that will result. we really should elect people with common sense who understand history... |
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zorroloco 08-May-07, 11:22 |
Deleted by zorroloco on 08-May-07, 13:12.
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leo_london 08-May-07, 11:24 |
The guy scares me, I wonder if the French know what they have let themseves in for..its going to be a long hot summer. |
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theloneranger 08-May-07, 11:58 |
Deleted by theloneranger on 08-May-07, 12:51.
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Jeff It seems to me that a lot of members of this club (not necessarily meant at you) like to make statements that they are not willing to discuss afterword. I find that unpleasant. I have learned, or been taught, that you can not lose an argument if you have at least one valid reason for making your statement. And, to make a statement you should have at least one valid reason. If you do have at least one valid reason for making your statement, you should be able to express it verbally or in writing. I was also taught that when someone asks you a question, it is considered rude not to answer it. In these cases, it might be rudeness or it might be that there is no vaid reasons or thoughts behind the original statements. |
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zorroloco 08-May-07, 12:06 |
Deleted by zorroloco on 08-May-07, 13:12.
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softie |
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theloneranger 08-May-07, 12:32 |
Deleted by theloneranger on 08-May-07, 12:50.
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theloneranger 08-May-07, 13:06 |
I notice he diverted from answering straight forward questions and just tried to make it appear that I supporting a position that I do not support , suggesting that I was making apoint I did not make. I never insinuated that there should be child labor, and that we should not make time for family.......a 40 to 60 hour work week is not out of line and successful people do it on there own all the time. Libs have a problem with those who are successful by their own sweat and believe that others should laze around and suck off the successes of hard workers. jeff made a comment saying that conservatives just start wars and send other peoples kids off to die........that is a complete and utterly disingenious remark..........I pointed out several families that are rich libs and asked who pulled us into the last several big wars...........I got no response just an attack on a position that I did not make nor do I support..........which proves what i said earlier about libs diverting the argument. What was the last Kennedy to die in a war......I know the answer to that btw. I ask for forgiveness for stooping to his level with the remarks I made directed towards him...........he obiviously was cocked and loaded to respond in a most hateful manner......he likes to insult my intelligence and accuse me of being stupid...........i have to admit that getting into these diatribes with him nearly proves that point. |
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tlr but, when i respond, i am accused of attacking conservatives. why do you not post a thread that says some of those french liberals are rioting instead of a blanket statement? by the way, you are welcome to work 40, 60, 80, or 100 hours a week for all i care. i too have worked long hours before i realized that i have better things to do than strive for the almighty dollar. i just think that people should not be forced to do so. |
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Jeff If you need to lable me, I'm a liberally conservative libertarian. |
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thumper |
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illinawek 08-May-07, 14:50 |
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