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romney speaks
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zorroloco
17-Sep-12, 18:59

romney speaks
and disdainfully writes off 47% of americans as lazy? huh?
dmaestro
17-Sep-12, 20:37

Romney will continue to self destruct as his phony persona wears thin. The real truth is that 47% will vote for romney regardless because they cant stand Obama, not because many like mitt. Mitt is the spoiled rich kid at heart who never appreciated the way most have to live.
chaz-
17-Sep-12, 20:41

... yet many admire him for what he's got ... they want to be like him, to have what he has ... or at least try. So he becomes a worthy goal. To dismiss him is to trivialize their own aspirations. Many of us have such idols ... and it's a common human trait to so strive.
dmaestro
17-Sep-12, 21:14

He is a successful businessman but he owes much to his father, without whom he would not be where he is today.


chaz-
17-Sep-12, 21:22

... inherited wealth is nearly always an unwanted anchor.
captaingoodvibes
18-Sep-12, 03:28

I'd be prepared to give it a shot!
brigadecommander
18-Sep-12, 03:46

can't wait to see how the zombies spin this one.
After all...he was just speaking from his heart. He can't help it when he lies. He knows that when his handlers figure out how to spin this the zombies will eat it up!!!. I would love to be a fly on the wall at the upcoming FOXNEWS strategy meeting. All i have to do is read the spin coming out of body politic(where there are hardly any dissenting voices) and i will get the whole sad pathetic story.
illinawek
18-Sep-12, 03:56

He was born on third base and been told his whole life he had hit a triple.

The problem is he doesn't lie. He believes the stuff he says, and thankfully it came out before the election.
zorroloco
18-Sep-12, 05:47

david brooks
conservative commentator, hands romney his head on a platter...

Thurston Howell Romney
By DAVID BROOKS
In 1980, about 30 percent of Americans received some form of government benefits. Today, as Nicholas Eberstadt of the American Enterprise Institute has pointed out, about 49 percent do.

In 1960, government transfers to individuals totaled $24 billion. By 2010, that total was 100 times as large. Even after adjusting for inflation, entitlement transfers to individuals have grown by more than 700 percent over the last 50 years. This spending surge, Eberstadt notes, has increased faster under Republican administrations than Democratic ones.

There are sensible conclusions to be drawn from these facts. You could say that the entitlement state is growing at an unsustainable rate and will bankrupt the country. You could also say that America is spending way too much on health care for the elderly and way too little on young families and investments in the future.

But these are not the sensible arguments that Mitt Romney made at a fund-raiser earlier this year. Romney, who criticizes President Obama for dividing the nation, divided the nation into two groups: the makers and the moochers. Forty-seven percent of the country, he said, are people “who are dependent upon government, who believe they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to take care of them, who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it.”

This comment suggests a few things. First, it suggests that he really doesn’t know much about the country he inhabits. Who are these freeloaders? Is it the Iraq war veteran who goes to the V.A.? Is it the student getting a loan to go to college? Is it the retiree on Social Security or Medicare?

It suggests that Romney doesn’t know much about the culture of America. Yes, the entitlement state has expanded, but America remains one of the hardest-working nations on earth. Americans work longer hours than just about anyone else. Americans believe in work more than almost any other people. Ninety-two percent say that hard work is the key to success, according to a 2009 Pew Research Survey.

It says that Romney doesn’t know much about the political culture. Americans haven’t become childlike worshipers of big government. On the contrary, trust in government has declined. The number of people who think government spending promotes social mobility has fallen.

The people who receive the disproportionate share of government spending are not big-government lovers. They are Republicans. They are senior citizens. They are white men with high school degrees. As Bill Galston of the Brookings Institution has noted, the people who have benefited from the entitlements explosion are middle-class workers, more so than the dependent poor.

Romney’s comments also reveal that he has lost any sense of the social compact. In 1987, during Ronald Reagan’s second term, 62 percent of Republicans believed that the government has a responsibility to help those who can’t help themselves. Now, according to the Pew Research Center, only 40 percent of Republicans believe that.

The Republican Party, and apparently Mitt Romney, too, has shifted over toward a much more hyperindividualistic and atomistic social view — from the Reaganesque language of common citizenship to the libertarian language of makers and takers. There’s no way the country will trust the Republican Party to reform the welfare state if that party doesn’t have a basic commitment to provide a safety net for those who suffer for no fault of their own.

The final thing the comment suggests is that Romney knows nothing about ambition and motivation. The formula he sketches is this: People who are forced to make it on their own have drive. People who receive benefits have dependency.

But, of course, no middle-class parent acts as if this is true. Middle-class parents don’t deprive their children of benefits so they can learn to struggle on their own. They shower benefits on their children to give them more opportunities — so they can play sports, go on foreign trips and develop more skills.

People are motivated when they feel competent. They are motivated when they have more opportunities. Ambition is fired by possibility, not by deprivation, as a tour through the world’s poorest regions makes clear.

Sure, there are some government programs that cultivate patterns of dependency in some people. I’d put federal disability payments and unemployment insurance in this category. But, as a description of America today, Romney’s comment is a country-club fantasy. It’s what self-satisfied millionaires say to each other. It reinforces every negative view people have about Romney.

Personally, I think he’s a kind, decent man who says stupid things because he is pretending to be something he is not — some sort of cartoonish government-hater. But it scarcely matters. He’s running a depressingly inept presidential campaign. Mr. Romney, your entitlement reform ideas are essential, but when will the incompetence stop?
hennybogan1953
18-Sep-12, 06:07

I think it is safe to say the bottom 47% is lazier than the top 47%. Poor people are lazy and sometimes need a good swift dose of reality to get them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. I hate when the poor folk are always whining and complaining, GET A YOB.
zorroloco
18-Sep-12, 06:09

henny
you know romney was on welfare as a child too, right?
zorroloco
18-Sep-12, 06:29

henny
those lazy 47%... uh-huh. homeless vets and the elderly and families of 4 who earn less than 26.5k.

Romney was close — 46 percent paid no federal income taxes in 2011.

Half of those nonpayers earn too little to pay any taxes, and half of them get there through tax deductions and exemptions, according to the Tax Policy Center. Of the latter half, 44 percent use tax deductions designed to help the elderly, and 30 percent use tax deductions that aid the working poor or children.

The Tax Policy Center uses a family of four earning less than $26,400 as an example. After the $11,600 standard deduction and four $3,700 exemptions, they have no taxable income.
But many of these people pay federal payroll and excise taxes, as well as state income taxes.
The ranks of those who don’t pay income tax has swelled because of unemployment and underemployment during the recession and the sputtering recovery. More than 13 million Americans are jobless.

Also driving an increase: tax policies pushed by Republicans. The Earned Income Tax Credit, greatly expanded by Ronald Reagan in the mid-1980s, is designed to give money back to low-income workers to increase their incentive to work. And a 2004 Tax Foundation study found the Bush-era tax cuts erased the income tax for 7.8 million families by lowering rates and doubling the child tax credit.

Not all of those avoiding income tax are poor, however. Even 4,000 people earning more than $1 million managed to not pay income taxes in 2011 because of deductions, according to the Tax Policy Center.
illinawek
18-Sep-12, 09:08

The tax structure of this Country is a product of Republicans
shamash
19-Sep-12, 09:28

and Mitt Romney is a product of
Gaskell Romney, his great-grandfather, and other cult members of Colonia Dublan, Chihuahua, Mexico
during the early 1900's. . .
chaz-
19-Sep-12, 09:47

... sometimes inherited wealth creates unusual opportunities for the bequeathed generations ... along with higher expectations ... and sometimes disappointments. Most of us don't understand these responsibilities nor do we understand the educational process their forebearers intended. Perhaps Darwin wins again.
illinawek
19-Sep-12, 14:50

I've known a few mega-wealthy people. You are right. They are trapped by money.

Its better to be upper middle class, so that you aren't worried about money all the time and aren't so rich you live your life to keep everyone else happy.
chaz-
19-Sep-12, 14:52

Illi ...
... I agree ... and I'm worried about the shrinkage of the Middle Class itself. A strong class structure breeds a natural interest in improving oneself ... we must not abandon this process.
pecosbill
19-Sep-12, 20:17

lets get real
Romney was talking about the election. He was not talking about how he was going to govern. Liberals are the ones fixated on how the pie is going to be sliced... conservatives just want growth so that everyones slice is bigger.
pecosbill
19-Sep-12, 20:25

Chaz...
I just erased a long response.... your comments deserve a separate thread.... lol
chaz-
19-Sep-12, 20:53

Pecos ...
... why not start a new thread.
brigadecommander
19-Sep-12, 21:01

LETS NOT GET REAL,
WHATS THIS BULL..; conservatives just want growth so that everyones slice is bigger. How in the world do you believe this tripe? And if you do believe it then I'm sorry to say, you have been brainwashed!!... I suggest you turn of FOXNEWS. Wages are going down even though productivity is going up!! The average fortune 500 persons income has gone up 13% in the last year!!! while average income has stagnated or dropped, Who is sucking up all the wealth???!!!.That tells you that corporations want to pay as little as possible regardless of how hard the average person works,They want all the money.They are infected with the 'greed compulsion'. Corporations are not 'people'. And Governor romney is not Human!!. He is a greedy out of touch plutocrat -----. And the whole rotten Conservative movement is an affront to America.
dmaestro
19-Sep-12, 22:26

I believe that conservatives believe their policies will create a rising tide that raises all boats. But in practice that notion hasn't worked. We need to get real. What really works?



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