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From	Message
zorroloco 28-Jan-13, 18:19	zombie apocalypse what else can it be? congress is actually working, and apparently working together, today. they pass sandy relief package and put together a viable immigration reform bill? now i am really scared.
illinawek 29-Jan-13, 13:40	I am not gloating. I am amazed by the loss of vigor and vim by the Republicans. They were going to make a big deal over the debt ceiling and they folded. They have folded on immigration. I guess that is what elections are for. Republicans are trying to reinvent themselves on many of their positions, which I applaud. If they can start to make sense again, maybe I would consider jumping the fence.
proginoskes 30-Jan-13, 08:36	I'm interested to see what they have to say about actual border security. If we took our border security serious we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
dmaestro 30-Jan-13, 12:04	Prog a majority came legally to visit but did not leave. Few sneak through the desert. No work, no idiotic drug laws, fix the immigration pipeline and work visa mess, no problem. A DMZ border is not the solution.
illinawek 30-Jan-13, 20:04	Prog WTF is "border security?" A fence? Do they want to hire a bunch of new people to guard the fence? What is that going to do? How about they get the employers that hire these people instead and cut their balls off. That will discourage illegal immigration, if that is your goal.
proginoskes 30-Jan-13, 20:09	Yeah. A wall would be a good start.
illinawek 30-Jan-13, 20:14	Who are you going to pay at GS-15 to sit around in the desert and watch it so no one cuts a hole in it? Then after they do that until they are 45 years old, you have to pay for their retirement.
proginoskes 30-Jan-13, 20:18	I'd suggest paying some of those few million people who are currently out of work and would love the job.
dmaestro 30-Jan-13, 20:28	So you want housands of armed unemployed guards out there? And an environmentally destructive fence? No work, no cross is a lot simpler.
illinawek 31-Jan-13, 04:23	Prog Hire millions of the unemployed. Pay them 80G per year to sit in a lawn chair across a 4000 mile long border to make sure no one cuts a hole in a fence, day and night.... I had you all wrong Prog. You are more liberal than I am.
zorroloco 31-Jan-13, 04:25	josh do you have any idea of the cost of building maintaining, and guarding a 2000 mile wall?
proginoskes 31-Jan-13, 04:56	Since when did the cost of anything the government did play into the liberal mindset. I'm actually quite refreshed seeing any sort of fiscal responsibility out of you guys.
zorroloco 31-Jan-13, 06:50	josh you know me better than that. and i expect more from you than pecosbill style pigeonholing of people.
proginoskes 31-Jan-13, 07:34	I was being a bit faceteous and you guys just kept going with it and so I just doubled down. Lol We do need more security on the border. However, we need to legalize the drugs and put blocks to employment and that would do wonders.
chaz5 31-Jan-13, 09:18	jdh ... ... living in Arizona, I have become a little educated. The fence here does little except to assuage the fencebuilders and those who have this penchant for separating everything on the border. But, yes, eliminate the drug issue (legalization) and become more rigid about cross-border arms transport would be a big plus. When Arizona tried to require employers to assure citizenship as a condition of employment, the Republicans blocked it as a requirement and made in voluntary ... so no company that needed undocumented workers would be affected. Hmmm. So ... I agree, put the onus onto the employer and slowly but surely increase the penalties for infractions. Establish an effective way to audit and verify citizenship regularly. Problem solved.
zorroloco 31-Jan-13, 10:24	josh/chaz yup. legalize and enforce on employers. problem solved.
zorroloco 31-Jan-13, 10:40	but it is so much easier easier to blame the poor people who come here looking for work to support their families than to blame business people who want to exploit those poor people for profit. not that these business people are bad people, but the system allows them to do so, and they need to do so to remain competitive. therefore the obvious solution is to make it so costly to hire illegal workers that it makes those who do so non-competitive in the marketplace. illegal immigration, like drugs, can only be dealt with viabbly by demand side policies, not supply.
illinawek 31-Jan-13, 20:51	Chaz Your finger is on the problem. Sensible people know the Republican party is run by the few and they have a bunch of people that the leadership considers dolts. They let in Mexican labor to please the 1% who exploit the hell out of the illegals while whipping the other 99% of their party into a frenzy with their race baiting. They get the illegal labor they want and the votes from the dolts. Best of both worlds. They aren't going after the employers. Those are their donors and the people who run the policy. Instead they talk about a bunch of pie in the sky stuff, like putting a 2000 mile long fence in. They know it won't do anything but waste a bunch of tax dollars and steer the discussion away from true reform. Republicans are happy with the way things are... all f***ed up. They will never solve this problem.

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