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 10-year old divorcee in Yemen writes book, ex-husband squanders cash........
It is disgusting that girls so young are bought as brides. This happens in SO many Islamic countries. You know why this happens? Because Muhammad's wife Aisha was 8 or 9 years old.
So how are so-called Muslims in the United States actually Muslims if they are condemning the prophet (in more ways than one) just by choosing to live here?
m.guardiannews.com
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tat ...
... it is difficult and prob'ly inappropriate for Americans to deliberately impact cultural change in another country even though there are unimaginable atrocities going on IMHO. The example you cite is but one of many.
Let's separate the issue into two parts: One issue is what goes on in virtually any other country culturally for things we may disapprove. The other is what goes on in the US with visitors/residents/citizens from another such country for things we may disapprove.
In the US, as we have done historically, we set examples for others to copy. We have laws created democratically by citizens. And, we have a river of mixing cultures for over two centuries that has produced what we have today.
Is this a good place to discuss what we can do in either of their venues?
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ace_kyi
17-Mar-13, 10:29
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A womanizer and pedophile !
www.youtube.com
Is that what tat is trying to say about the prophet ?
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Is there anyone in this club (or any other) that does not know of human rights atrocities done in the name of the prophet in Islamic countries? I don't think so. We (as in members of gameknot) must be careful in what we post in regard to other cultures and religions we do not agree with. We can discuss and argue but not profane no matter how abhorrent atrocities are in our way of thinking. Factual material and references I would think are fine. Raging attacks full of profanities are simply uncivil, no matter what has been going on elsewhere. Unfortunately the subject matter on some issues are extremely emotive (from many of us) and sometimes very personal at times.
We must also remember that there may be human rights atrocities being done in other places (including our own countries) for whatever reason as well to some degree.
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change....
I don't know what happened but your last post seems extremely rational.
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My thoughts on Islam are well known within these threads, and have been for years.
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This is one of the major problems we in the 'west' see with Islam, and I'm sure that there are thousands if not millions of Muslim women who would agree. I'm sure on this issue tat would also agree wholeheartedly.
www.guardian.co.uk
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disgusting
this is sad. it happens all over the world... and worse.
Father Rapes And Pimps Out THREE Of His Adopted Children And Was In Process Of Adopting a Fourth
An adoptive father, who is not being named at this time to protect the identity of the children, has been arrested for having sex and allowing other men to have sex with his adopted children. The 39-year-old “father” from Troy, Ohio, was also in the process of adopting a fourth child when all the allegations came to light.
Not only was he an adoptive father, but he was also a junior league basketball coach, who has recently been suspended due to the allegations. He has been charged with three counts of rape and one count of compelling prostitution. The part that makes this story even more disturbing is that he pimped out these children to at least two other men that the authorities are aware of at this time.
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z
Not even in the same league as a whole society that condones atrocities to its women and children, disgusting as it is.
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change
true. but this thread, about a father stealing his daughter's money, hardly counts as an atrocity. not at all in the same league as a guy raping and pimping out his adopted daughters.
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This thread, as often happens, changed tack when ace intervened, alluding directly to Islam and the prophet!
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change
islam has some serious problems with women and treatment of women. i tend to think it is more cultural than religious based. christianity also has serious problems with women. but western culture has evolved to a point where outright subjugation of women and girls is not allowed by our culture, even though fundamentalist christians and jews still often subjugate women.
my experience is that it is not islam per se, but backwards paternalistic cultures that subjugate women.
as evidence, i look at muslims in america. i see muslim women becoming professors and lawyers and doctors. and i look at bosnia, a muslim european nation in which women have a large degree of freedom and equality.
i also see christian nations such as s. korea and mexico in which women are second class citizens and subject to oppression and discrimination.
islam plays a role - but i think the issue of women's subjugation is less about islam and more about backwards cultures. you can find horrible women's subjugation all over the world, and not just in muslim countries.
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What you say is quite correct about other cultures also subjugating women. For the most part Muslims in the US or Australia are not deemed genuine by the hardliners of Saudi Arabia, Iran etc. You are also changing the theme of the thread into a general discussion on the subjugation of women worldwide, and also the possibilities for Muslim women within the western culture/nations to 'disown' the roots of Islamic culture to some extent. The danger is the increase in social power of fundamentalist Muslims within Islamic communities throughout the world. As Islam grows, so too do the fundamentalists, often at a greater rate. Social unrest is being perpetuated within western culture now by the extremist fringe of Islam causing concerns in quite a few countries, particularly within Europe where Islamic migration is trending at quite a rate in recent years.
If you ask your Muslim friends or students (not that I think you personally would) that if and/or when the Islamic leaders within their local communities insist they adhere to ALL the teachings of Islam and obey the directives of their Mullahs and sharia law or be classed as apostate, what do you think their answers will be?
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change
most of my muslim students would not abide by fundamentalist directives from their imams. and the vast majority of my muslim parents are very willing to subjugate their muslam rules for the rules of the country. for example, we have a rule at our school that only students in good academic standing are allowed to miss class to pray (as part of the 5 times a day rule). as teachers, we have the ability to disallow a student from leaving class to pray if they are misbehaving or not performing academically. only once did i have a parent complain, and when i explained the rule, mom supported me 100% and railed at the kid for not doing her work.
most of my muslim students (and parents) want to stay muslim, but also to advance in american society.
of course, i agree with you about the rise in islamic fundamentalism and the challenges it presents. i also see the same issue with fundamentalist christianity and judaism. my brother became an ultra orthodox jew and it messed him and his family up big time. he has since come to his senses and is now non-practicing and bordering on atheism.
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Zorroloco
Based on what are you suggesting that culture is separate from Islam? I ask because Islamic text essentially consists of detailed instructions on how to do literally everything in life. From having friendships to going to the bathroom. Islamic text also dispenses rules on masturbation and tells women what they can and cannot do while menstruating.
It could be said that Islam is defined by being intrusive and controlling, and is distinctive because of it's incompatibility with a society that has a separation of church and state. So, I am interested in how Islamic text lends itself to your belief that culture in Islamic countries is separate from Islam.
Unless you are saying that Islam is the product of an existing culture in the Arabian Penninsula, which I would agree with, even though it seems like a moot point to me.
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tat
that makes sense. but it neglects the obvious and inconvenient fact that almost every islamic country has quite different and distinct cultures. you seem to be assuming that the islamic faith dictates every facet of life... and to some extent it does. but how it is interpreted is very different based on country, region, family, imam, and even individual people. muslims in america and bosnia and somalia and indonesia and yemen and iran practice their religion and live their lives in widely disparate ways.
islamic culture is no more monolithic than christian culture.
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z...
... regarding how religion is 'managed' differently in different cultures, that is also true of Christianity as well (as has been said). Fortunately, here, there is no one sect that has influence over the entire US culture. In South America, the Catholic Church has incredible power (some of those Argentine stories we're hearing about is some evidence of that). Isn't it prob'ly just a matter of time that Islam will grow out of its conservative religious approach (it might take a few more generations)? Or, do you think there will be severe armed conflict before that evolution has a chance?
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chaz
we can hope. i see signs in both directions. in europe and america, many muslims are incorporating a more moderate modern islam that accepts differences. in many muslim countries, we see a rise in fundamentalism.
i think the main variable is education - educated people tend to reject hard core fundamentalism and embrace a more nuanced and accepting vision of religion. we see the same thing here in the us where the far right christian zealots tend to be largely uneducated and poor.
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