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From	Message
bobbynox 07-Sep-06, 16:16	Deleted by bobbynox on 23-Jan-07, 08:17.
tugger 07-Sep-06, 16:24	what forum? the one that is below this one in the activity table? hehe couldn't resist it... i might go and post a silly amount of threads there now just to make my comments redundant... they haven't banned me yet... i might stir up some trouble there one day to test the water hehe... seriously, though, i second that motion... cross-forum arguments are not healthy for either club... forget about any crap (in a non-vulgar manner) that went on there, and channel your energies into positive discussion...
kingofpawns 07-Sep-06, 21:33	I agree... The other forum is not a free speech or democratic forum. Anyone from that forum is welcome here and they will never be kicked out no matter how silly and uninformed their arguments are.
obviously 08-Sep-06, 07:51	""As the ONLY elected MOD (so far), I feel it necessary to talk about the "Other" forum. You know which one. If you don't know, then feel blessed in your ignorance."" Somehow i get the impression this thread was triggered by the notorious first(!) deleted thread at this place so beiing its topicstarter I feel it necessary to respond. I was suprised to see your voting while you admitted not having seen it. Also I was suprised one moderators (leo_londens) opposing opinion brutally deleted with that thread without leaving a copy in the proper place (the mod thread). I'm not saying I disagree with anything written above or your vote, just wishing you a chin-up, onward, so-on and so-forth mod relection hoping the next time you actually get to see what you are voting about. We need more lyrics. What say, YOU?
bobbynox 08-Sep-06, 08:09	Deleted by bobbynox on 23-Jan-07, 08:17.
kingofpawns 11-Sep-06, 13:20	The other forum... views the creation of this club as the "flame wars" version of their forum. They view their own club as a replacement for the old social forum on gameknot. Nothing could be farther from the truth. In the old gameknot social forum, no one was banned from the forum for their views but only for violating the GK rules. The reason Mike gave for closing down the gameknot social forum was that he was threatened by legal action by someone on gameknot. Most of the problems that occurred in the old social forum came from right-wing nuts. In the other forum, you will be booted if you persistantly disagree with the basic right-wing-neo-con ideolgy of that forum. Therefore, it is not a replacement for the old gameknot social forum. However, our new club is a replacement. Posts are not deleted or people banned unless they break or are percieved to break the GK rules. So, we finally have a replacement for the old gameknot social forum in the "The 1st Amendment Club".
astinkyfart 11-Sep-06, 13:31	sounds like a bunch of cry babies to me. why mention the "other forum" if everyone knows what it is anyway? get over it. i think this whole thread should be deleted.
bobbynox 11-Sep-06, 13:56	Deleted by bobbynox on 23-Jan-07, 08:17.
kingofpawns 11-Sep-06, 14:03	stinky... we don't delete threads over here. Why should I get over it? I want to see more free and open discussion, which finally can happen here. And I want more of you right-wingers to come over here.
zorroloco 11-Sep-06, 14:06	can i? ban stinky for telling me to delete this thread? canicanicani??????? no? crud! this free speech deal stinks! lol. stinky...glad to see you here!
leo_london 11-Sep-06, 16:01	kop, stinky. I thought the post by Deadofknight in the " other " club was fairly reasonable taken in its entirety, the quote you mention is a little out of context. My problem with the LSF ( no harm in mentioning the club ) is that it has changed considerably since those early days when dok and stinky started the club. Looking back at those old threads, you can see that there was indeed freedom of expression, there were some great debates. The question I would like to put to both dok and stinky is..why the apparent change in policy ? I have remained a member there, I still admire ( and like ) you both, but dont you agree things have changed for the worse ?
thumper 11-Sep-06, 16:14	KOP >we don't delete threads over here.< Really? I count 5 deleted threads and at least that many deleted posts. This club is only a couple weeks old. Saying a thing does'nt make it true.
kementari 11-Sep-06, 16:18	stinky <<sounds like a bunch of cry babies to me. why mention the "other forum" if everyone knows what it is anyway? get over it. i think this whole thread should be deleted. >> While I'm pretty sure that this thread isn't at any risk of getting us shut down, I do happen to agree with you about this being an inanely silly thread. Perhaps it's the sales background. Preach the strengths of your own product, and never, never rely on trash-talking people in the same business-- it's the sign of a weak competitor. Either that or it's the sign of someone who just likes to trash talk. Could be that, too.
bobbynox 11-Sep-06, 16:21	Deleted by bobbynox on 23-Jan-07, 08:17.
leo_london 11-Sep-06, 16:28	thumper..There will always be deletions, I had a couple of posts deleted in the LSF during some heated debates. It was done with good humour, I just shrugged and carried on. The point is, we had those heated debates, and there was never any threat of closure from GK. We, for the most part, behaved like adults. We all had a ( sometimes grudging ) respect for each other and tolerated each others views, however zany at times. All we are trying to do here is recapture some of that spirit which seems to have been lost ( hopefully only temporarily ) in the LSF.
leo_london 11-Sep-06, 16:35	Kem..I disagree, its quite interesting ( at least for me ) having been a member of that club from the beginning. They did set out with almost exactly the same aims that we have discussed, why did things change ? It poses the question.. will we inevitably change, despite all our well meaning intentions ? As a student, so to speak, of forums what has been your experience ?
bobbynox 11-Sep-06, 16:37	Deleted by bobbynox on 23-Jan-07, 08:17.
leo_london 11-Sep-06, 16:42	I give up, you Americans have obviously been drinking all day. I'll try again tomorrow when you are nursing your hangovers.
kingofpawns 11-Sep-06, 16:50	Thumper... Only 1 of the 5 threads was deleted for non-trivial reasons. For example, one of my threads was deleted because it was an accidental double post. The one deleted for a non-trivial reason would probably not be deleted now. The concern was whether there was any violation of GK rules. It now appears there was not. There is nothing wrong with talking about other clubs here. I notice there is a mormon club and they talk about mormon issues. In this club, our concern is with free and open debate. I agree that LSF was like that once, but it changed.
proginoskes 11-Sep-06, 16:55	thumper - deleted threads and posts Only one thread has been deleted because it was problem, and that was the thread that seemed to be "calling out" a member of another forum. the moderators felts this was inappropriate, as we wished to avoid any sort of back and forth forum posting - remember the ill-will that TLSF ended up having with the lady's forums before it went the way of the dinosaur? All the other deleted threads were deleted because of mistakes or obsolescence by the person that started those threads. There have been to my knowledge only TWO deletions of posts for language by the moderators, all other deletions have been self-deletions. As long as you don't violate GK rules, or engage in posting deemed to be potential to the forum, we don't bother your posts, or ban you . . . welcome thump
proginoskes 11-Sep-06, 16:59	that should have read "potentially dangerous" i do not know why i do not preview well
astinkyfart 12-Sep-06, 14:49	kem actually agreed with me? or... maybe i actually understood her post this time   kem (thats a knock on me not you) leo, im not sure but... on the changes in tlsf, freedom of speech still does exist. i think the problem (at least as i understand it) wasnt the difference of opinion it was the negativity and thread flooding ( at least in one case) i dont know every situation because i didnt change any policy and i never kicked anyone out. dont get me wrong. i dont disagree with some of the things going on. the clubs atmosphere has changed a little but in my opinion for the positive. ideas are exchanged more readily now or maybe just more fun is being had. either way i like it better there now as oppossed to before. kop dont get angry but... many of the post by you were so completely polarized that it left no room for anything but hard feelings. i have told you many time that starting threads with comments like bush crime family and things like that leave no room for discussion. if i asked a man if he has a good slutty wife or a bad slutty wife i have left no room for anything but hard feelings. shouldnt we first establish if shes even a slutty wife first? i know this will not get through to you kop, it doesnt matter anyway, anymore. i have no idea about some of the others but (in my opinion) thats why i feel kop was banned. no sense arguing with a fence post. not calling kop a fence post just saying even if I am the fence post still no sense in trying to share ideas. why bother anymore, why keep causing arguments? it was in the best interest of the club to get rid of kop. maybe even was in kops best interest. kop not trying to set you out or cause trouble but your case is the only one im even remotely familiar with. the others will have to ask dok or whoever banned them. i havent even been online much lately.
pawntificator 12-Sep-06, 17:28	Flooding I agree that occassionally KOP would go on a bender and post several threads attacking the Bush administration. But it wasn't an unreasonable amount of flooding. It didn't cause that much trouble. You could ignore and step around the posts, and get the other discussions back on top. And granted, he did turn several threads which had nothing to do with politics over to the bush crime family. And I saw that it was getting to several people who would complain "must you turn everything into a tirade about bush?" But I still don't think he was out of line or disrespectful. It could have been handled differently. But no matter. Now he is over here, and this whole club hates bush so there. ha ha, who am I pissing offf? I am of the opinion that the banning of KOP and others was based on personal frustration and not rule breaking. But again, whoever owns a club can do whatever they want, and that is that.
leo_london 12-Sep-06, 17:38	stinky..Thanks for getting back to me on that, and giving your view. I guess it just comes down to individual preferences in the end. I thought the rather provocative posts by some members did encourage debate, I certainly preferred the more " meaty " threads that used to be commonplace in the LSF. It does appear more friendly and less challenging now, but most threads are what I would call " shooting the breeze ". Nothing wrong with that, the " British " club ( I am a member there ) seems to be thriving solely on threads and posts of that kind.
kingofpawns 12-Sep-06, 17:50	I agree... I tend to post in spurts and then disappear for a few days or even weeks. From the very beginning, I have often referred to the Bush administration as the Bush crime family, so I used the same terms as I have from the beginning. Stinky... it takes a lot to get me upset. I fully realize that using terms such as the "Bush crime family" upsets a lot of people, but I also believe that these are extraordinary times we are living in and that Bush has done extraordinary damage to this country. Let's do a though experiment. Let's move back in time to 1993. Suppose Clinton had started a war with Iraq justified first by WMD and when that was not found claimed ties to 9-11. Moreover, he was conducting a war that had dragged on for over 3 years and things were only getting worse. He could articulate no plan on how to end the war other than the next president would have to deal with it. What would you be saying in this forum about the Clinton administration? Wouldn't you be temped to call the Clinton adminstration the "Clinton crime family"?
pawntificator 12-Sep-06, 18:15	That thought experiment won't work. It is too clouded by recent events. Even I can't quite imagine it. But I appreciate the shift in perspective you are trying to make. It's not a partisan issue at all. If it had been Clinton, you would be just as unhappy. It doesn't matter WHO is being a bad president. KOP would stand up for what he thinks no matter what. Even if all his thoughts come from AP articles, heh heh
pawntificator 12-Sep-06, 18:28	Sorry That might have been too harsh. I was trying to make fun of KOP for posting articles. But I do respect your ability to think.
kingofpawns 13-Sep-06, 00:06	pawntificator... Most people are unaware of the articles I post. I don't think most are AP articles. The interesting thing I find is that nobody refutes the points I make about the Bush administration. No one ever tries to argue that Bush is a competent president. No one ever tries to explain why almost everthing he says is false.
obviously 13-Sep-06, 01:03	kop and jdh Do you realise your inserted linebreaks screw up your postings and make them hard to read? Please donot use linebreaks, resize your window to see what it's like!
leo_london 13-Sep-06, 01:21	obviously..." Do you realise your inserted linebreaks screw up your postings and make them hard to read? Please donot use linebreaks, resize your window to see what it's like! " I did mention that before. I think its something to do with the conflict between the Mac and our pc's...but that may be completely wrong,.
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