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 FYIon me. So, jd its ok for you to say Im acting like a child, and that I need some spiritual growth if I dont see things your way. You take a stab at my club in between it all and thats ok, too. And then youre doing kop a favor by doing what is basically deleting what is here by starting a new thread so that this one will disappear. Then Im threatened by obviously...and he takes a whack at my club all at the same time as if he was mistreated or abused by me. Leo is right. You dont know the history. What you all have done is completely underscored the depth of hypocrisy that you pretend to be eradicating in this club. You come here all wound up ready to tak ethe heat and the next thing you know...youre cracking the whip and acting like I have no business being here, that my opinions are poorly stated, unenlightened etc... The truth is that I was surprised by KOP's remarks because of their clarity, lack of bite, effort to find common ground etc...and this appears to me to be a rather large change. Thats my opinion. And, again, i dont believe that kem was offended...if she was, her PM to me seemed quite nice and didnt reflect any such feelings that have been attached to her by others here. So....I guess this will be the next thread chewed up and spit out by the same folks that are enlightened and believe that free speech is the name of the game here until I show up and make a few harmless cracks and humanity is now plunging toward extinction... I will be waiting for more hate mail...it just reasures me that the little experiment is a crock. |
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dok >he takes a whack at my club Come on dude, what do you expect if you come here ranting and raving while booting ppl from your place for no valid reason. |
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we disagree loads on political issues, but don't think that everyone here is unwelcoming towards you... i happen to agree with the notion that some were booted unfairly from your club, which is why i defected, but that doesn't mean i think you have no right being here... you have as much right as anyone here taking digs at you... and i welcome you... i think that some just cannot resist the temptation to say what they felt they couldn't in your club... or are venting their anger at your actions there... take it on the chin, and give as good as you get... |
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None of the people interesting it is to find both of these persons acting in a much different way when they decided to take a walk in my shoes. That alone ought to explain a lot. Every story has its 2 sides -- I chose not to argure it out because quite frankly Im not health enough go through it all. I have good days and bad days healthwise. I popped in yesterday expecting to get a cold hello from a few, but since you all dont know the whole story--hoow many times I PM'd individuals pleading with them to be a bit softer in their approach and less, etc...etc...etc... And now I find that they were always capable of it, they simply chose not to. Theyre doing a fine job of it here. I mentioned in my club that some people need to have their "own place". They dont do well when regulated. I understand that...it makes all the sense in the world. And I find them to be happier here in their own place, more responsible in their own place, they arent pushing the limits and basically acting how they ought to...they just couldnt do it while someone else was managing them. Finding their own freedom and being able to put up stakes and make their own decisions has , no doubt, changed their perspective. Ive poked arounf enough in here to see that and anybody that as spent time in both clubs can see that for themselves. Perhaps, pointing that out was tough medicine, but I think its a clear difference and to be honest I find absolutely nothing wrong with this. Everyone is different. Some people dont operate well under one set of conditions and thrive under a separate set of conditions. They can complain all they want but if they acted then how they do now, there wouldnt have evere been a problem. Of course my appearance here brings into sharp relief what it may be like to have someone in your club that makes things hard on you. And the responses noted here are a perfect example of that. Its a simple story; you just need to walk in the other guys shoes sometimes. They might protest all of this because they cant admit that they have changed their ways and swallow the fact that its a different thing when youre responsible for the place. But, all you need to do is go back and review it all. kop, for example, has always been a great contributor, but he is much better over here. And so I said that. He can argue that point if he likes but its the truth...and its easy to see the difference in his tone and approach. So perhaps youre right tugger, they'd like to take a shot at me too. I dont care it only shows the difference even more. |
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bobbynox 14-Sep-06, 16:55 |
Deleted by bobbynox on 23-Jan-07, 08:18.
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kementari 14-Sep-06, 16:57 |
bobby |
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I've been fairly low key so far but... This club is marketed as THE freespeech club, (if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen, expect to get challenged, blahblahblah). It's fun to posture but as soon as someone posts something you don't want to hear the call goes out to delete. The irony is killing me! |
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leo_london 14-Sep-06, 17:23 |
Personally, I think it has helped clear the air between the various factions. |
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kementari 14-Sep-06, 17:30 |
And, just to be ornery... Current mods who have put so much time and effort into this forum it's a wonder their significant others aren't slowly poisoning them to death or supergluing appendages to places they don't belong in their sleep: Keep the faith. Remember that I do occasionally post for a wider audience, and that I like to control the tension. Occasionally, that means redirecting it when I see it going a place that I don't want it to go, and I can handle the heat. dok wasn't exactly feeding my grandmother to the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal. Obviously: Against my better judgment, I am going to say something here. You could learn a lot from trying to climb the ladder in corporate America. To wit: the world does not revolve around you. Either you adapt to its harsh demands or be crushed. Whine about that fact, and it will only crush you while you whine. We're a lot nicer than the rest of the world here, because this is playtime, not real life; however, the same basic principles truly do still apply. You lose what little shreds of self-respect you might still be able to lay claim to with every attempt to take a stab at us. Adapt, and drop it. It's not to late to join a thread and talk about something other than the way we choose to run this show. dok: *salutes with a lazy grin* I'll see you in the ring (points to the next thread).... |
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You are so afraid of the guy upstairs, stay down Kem. I can't believe I'm siding with thumper here: no need to shut anybody up at this time. Bobby you started this thread, I guess this is what you asked for. |
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oh brother it is only a chat room on a chess page fer gawds sake... |
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kingofpawns 14-Sep-06, 18:00 |
DOK... You must be feeling better now! I never tried Zoloft, but I did try some pot in an Amsterdam coffee house last year. >Q's: >Which people are incompetent that are surrounding him? Rumsfeld, Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, etc. >Your arguments about alerts and all are only ignorant ( and I use the term as defined; "without >knowledge"). You don't have any real evidence that any of that was politically driven, except for your >own personal dislike for the Right. Ok, then you have to explain the timeline. Why did they stop the day after the election in 2004? All summer and fall we were getting orange alerts nearly every week. Why as the 2006 election is coming close, does Bush talk about terrorism every day? Why wasn't it just as important a month ago, two months ago? Now, that is all he talks about. >A threat to the Constitiution and a blundering idiot; you can't have it both ways. Government rights vs. >private rights are being tested. They should be. they are constantly in flux -- dynamic. Youre correct >about the concern -- are we going to far...how far do we need to go to do the job without infringing upon >our rights, but how does this equate to a threat to the Constitution. the man has an opinion (that >matters) on how to best defeat terrorists. He is trying to use every tool available...I realize its a >slippery slope but you take it way too far...if you have an issue with the Patriot Act, fine. We all ought to >know what it is doing, if its helping or hurting, but this is an odd way to turn the guy into Satan. Yes, it can be both ways. You see, I don't see why we have to give up our freedom to fight terrorism. I don't believe Bush is Satan (of course I don't believe in Satan LOL), but I don't know why he wants so much unchecked power. Why does he want the right to torture people when it is well know not to work and it is immoral? I don't know why more republicans have not stood up to him on this until today. >You mention that he is against alternative energy sources and yet, everytime he has the chances he >mentions alternative energies as a priority and has even discussed the matter in his State of the Union >addresses; With Bush, you have to see what he does and not what he says. So far he has done virtually nothing. Why hasn't he proposed and pushed in congress a set of buisness inscentives to develope alternative sources. No, with any politician, you must never just listen to what they say but see what they actually do. >clearly this is a fabrication you have adopted for no good reason or you just dont care to >educate yourself. A quick trip to whitehouse.gov and click on "energy" and you will find that in the >last year alone has addressed the issue multiple times. Where are your facts that demonstrate such a >position is one he holds -- this is just pure garbage. He talks alot but does nothing. |
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kingofpawns 14-Sep-06, 18:26 |
Dok... Syndrome. It is really nasty and can take months or years to get over and there are often setbacks. www.distanthealer.co.uk" target="_blank">-> www.distanthealer.co.uk (www.distanthealer.co.uk/ guillain_barre_syndrome.htm) >Im here to express my free spech. So, unless youre saying I cant take a swing at the fact that in this >club kop seems to be behaving with some sense of thoughtfulness that he never demonstrated before >(due to a lack of responsibility) then lets just get used to the fact that this is the 1st Amendment Club >and was formed so that I and everyone else could take a swing so long as we didnt cross the line of >death defined in some place here as the GK Rules. I find it amazing as well that I was reprimanded on >my very first post here...I thought it would take a few before things got fun...but, I guess I was >wrong...the flashing lights of freedom dimmed the moment I made a harmless jab....sad, indeed, sad. I say pretty much the same thing over here as I said over there. May be it is the context in which I say it that matters. >So, shall we get on with it...or shall we be really mean to each other and make it the 2nd amendment >Club...the right to bear arms, Im sure you know. I wouldn't recommend Cheney as a member though. >Now as for your points above. Thanks for the "i like your writing style comment" makes me feel good. I >suspect that will be the last compliment I shall hear from these here parts. >So, lets start with the Sierra Club...this is basically a club, interestingly enough , that would destroy the >worlds economy to save a grasshopper... That of course assumes that what is best for the Earth's environment is good for the world's economy. Don't you think that your home is a nice place to live when you don't crap on the floor and use the toilet? <stuff deleted see above> >Right now, as I see it...nobody has done a damn bit of good anywhere to solve this problem so for kop >to make this a reason to call Bush a criminal is a bit like me calling you a tomato because youre blood is >as red as mine. No logic, no facts, nothing but bologna cuz he hates the guy. But, you see Bush is president, and he is precisely the person to take the lead on the environment for the whole world. But he does not. >Oh, one more thing -- "the little words and actions comment" tell me you seriously think anyone has a >monopoly in any govt position on this...before we get too far. Because I believe that the Left ran this >country for like 40 years and during that time...we basically created every problem we are taking about >now. Theyre politicians. Some are good, I suppose, most are power mongers...and like to prattle. Few >are good...but the problem is, even if they are good kop is a perfect example of why it doesnt matter >-- because politics has become so devisive there isnt any room any more for nice people in the middle >that think for themselves and care...they end up on his crime list because they think the Patriot Act >might actually stop a terrorist act from occurring... One of the things I repeatedly find republicans doing is projecting their own problems onto their opponents. The republicans investigated Clinton for his entire presidency and found nothing. Out of that he lied about something that begins with "B" and also involved a cigar and got impeached. Let's take all the problems we have today, so say, for example Iraq. Here is a nice picture how republicans have got us into all the problems we face: www.gwu.edu" target="_blank">-> www.gwu.edu |
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kingofpawns 14-Sep-06, 18:27 |
P. S. |
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AH....KOP As for the alerts; youre wrong again. I dont have anything to prove here -- you do. You allege some political management of terrorist alerts but the fact is you have nothing to back it up. No memo, no wink to Homeland Security, nothing. Youre assumptions carrry the burden here. You can dream that "the Evil One" is pulling the levers of such things, but frankly, Im sure he's pretty damn busy with other things. This is a non-story because there is no basis. It could be just a simple as...thats what was happening at the time. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, in which case, I would be calling your local news outlet, you have a mean spirited, home-grown, sheep-following, Air-America-engendered bit of assumptions that I still label as truly ignorant -- you have no knowledge, no basis, nothing to even begin a case on and you use this as a reason to call him a criminal. I think thats rather extreme and irresponsible to use such claims in order to support such a position. As for personal rights not needing to be infringed upon, I guess part of the answer is that we have laws in place that are archaic vis-a-vis the technology boom...terrorists arent restrained by any laws to only use those tools that are free game for the gov't to listen in on, etc...I'm not saying your wrong here...all Im saying is you stated this as a reason for calling the Crime Family and it doesnt stand up to that kind of label. Its a dance...and a hard one at that. I can see why he would want less red tape when it comes to tapping phone calls as part of an overall strategy to catch teh bad guys. I can also see that your average citizen doesnt want his/her rights trampled. But Crime Family? Its such an overloaded label. It doesnt improve your position to put it in the context you have. There are plenty of other terms for his position here, but criminal isnt one of them. On Energy: <With Bush, you have to see what he does and not what he says. So far he has done virtually nothing. Why hasn't he proposed and pushed in congress a set of buisness inscentives to develope alternative sources. No, with any politician, you must never just listen to what they say but see what they actually do.> Youre right here. Nobody has done anything left or right to substantively address the issue. He talks about it, but it hasnt floated to the top of his list of things to do today and it should. The reason youre right is that it hasnt floated to the top of anybody's agenda. So once again, the label criminal here in this case includes teh entire body of congress...I dont buy it. <He talks alot but does nothing.> Hate to burst your bubble -- they all do. |
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kementari 14-Sep-06, 18:41 |
<<You are so afraid of the guy upstairs, stay down Kem.>> You missed the point. It's about understanding the path of least resistance, understanding why the rules are in place, whether or not you agree with them, and enjoying the game regardless. |
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Kem, Leo Obviously - You and I agreeing? We must have entered the twilight zone. |
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kementari 14-Sep-06, 18:45 |
tugger Umm, yeah. What Jeff said. Bobby was just being bobby. It's his new world era to make sure that nobody takes themselves too seriously. |
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kementari 14-Sep-06, 18:50 |
thumper You're not talking about packet loss concealment here, are you? Color me confused. |
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Kem The Product Life Cycle (PLC) refers to the succession of stages a product goes through. The stages are: Introduction Growth Maturity Decline - At this point there is a downturn in the market. It's possible to restart the PLC with the right marketing mix. Just being cute. |
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Shut down the thread? |
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DOK dont see things your way. You take a stab at my club in between it all and thats ok, too*** Call it like I see it. You have opinions too right? Its your bed . . . sleep in it. ***What you all have done is completely underscored the depth of hypocrisy that you pretend to be eradicating in this club. You come here all wound up ready to tak ethe heat and the next thing you know...youre cracking the whip and acting like I have no business being here, that my opinions are poorly stated, unenlightened etc*** *ahem* I think everyone welcomed you including Jeff, until we were told by Thumper that Jeff trying to welcome you to *his* club after you booted him and placed him on ignore could place in in violation of GK ignore rules, and we deleted the thread. Everyone has welcomed you, including myself, but we have also called you on what we see as BS. You've gotten defensive, meaning we've struck a nerve. Perhaps it is time to take a little responsibility for your part of the interaction and quit playing the "why's everybody always pickin' on me martyr card" (it's soooo not you)? ***So....I guess this will be the next thread chewed up and spit out by the same folks that are enlightened and believe that free speech is the name of the game here until I show up and make a few harmless cracks and humanity is now plunging toward extinction...*** You actually think you have the power with your remarks to close down this thread? Whatever man. Extinction?! Dude I would laugh if I wasn't picturing your serious face when you made this comment - seems tragic really. ***I will be waiting for more hate mail...it just reasures me that the little experiment is a crock. *** It's not a crock because this thread will stand. No one will get booted, including yourself. It's probably better than you could have said about your club . . . it's your legacy and you cannot imagine you'd not have to face that coming here. so deal with it? |
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Jdh71 I wrote that letter to Jeff in good faith and good will. For you to twist it (with his blessing?) in this fashion in order to make some cutting comment to DOK shows a considerable lack of judgment and character. I have received many PMs and would never repeat what was said in confidence. Jeff has already made know his feelings concerning publicizing private messages. He may want to reconsider who is trustworthy. I will have my rank from you. An appology is required of you to Jeff (if you violated his trust), the members of this club, DOK, and myself. |
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Nice, guys, real nice. nothing to jdh71...or any of you folks, for that matter. I have a club...I take responsibility for it. You started a club with a different premise based on the fact that you found me too controlling. You called it free speech. I thought it was a fine idea and said so many times...I swallow my pride, show up here, make some real observations and its nothing but attack mode from you guys over nothing. Closing down the thread....thats exactly what you inferred here < Were we ot going to start a new thread? KOP this is kind fo your baby, might I suggest one? > This is kinda for you baby? Now you say its not a crock because this thread will stand when you personally sugggested its abondment for "you baby, kop". It was your suggestion and the point was to restart the thread because of my comments...in essence round-file it. Now you put it in reverse because you recognize the hypocrisy, too. You recognize that youve acted in a mannr completely inconsistent with the premise here...and dont want to own up to it. Buts its right here for all to read... including your baby, kop. Like he needs you to rescue him...you degrade him by even making this pitch...he is plenty able to defend himself without your odd remark, as he demonstrated. You do make a good point tho jd, <it's your legacy and you cannot imagine you'd not have to face that coming here. so deal with it? > and the point is that your ill mannered behavior and lack of integrity are okay as long as theyre aimed at the right guy. Yah, free speech... Again. The point is made...another person running way over the line because there is no reponsibility for him in it. kem has been the exception. The irony here is mind boggling...and you sir, Mr jd have revealed the heart of all this. And done a nice job of it. You should be proud of yourself. So, I see where you guys are at...you wanna boot me for the conflict, spare yourself...I just thought I'd take a walk thru here to see if you guys were real or not, if you had it together or were just trying to act the part. Ive got a good idea where the truth lies. DoK |
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Dok You can't fool me with that crazy line! I'm not going to site some fallacy file on you like kem... But you must admit that this is all a bit silly. Lets just all take a deep breath and relax a bit. I can tell you from my heart, I have never done anything but welcome you anywhere. Especially here. I have tried to make light of the situation. But if it really must come down to it, I cannot even be sure if you have me on ignore. We were talking....and I don't mean to make private info public, but we did share a few Private Messages....and I apologize if my life got too hectic for you, but the point came when I couldn't communicate as well as I should....you were aware of my money problems and my girl problems....and several times in the last few months I have tried to contact you, and forgive me if the reason you ignored me was due to Guillian Bar syndrome, because the reason I couldn't respond was due to problems of my own....so we should be even.... But perhaps that whole message was in error...because I don't know. The last 2 or 3 times I have tried to talk to you I have been ignored or forgotten. No matter, I'm not very sore about it...I mean, tell the truth, none of you people mean anything to me, right? That's right, this is all just an illusion, a passtime, a figment of your imagination. Ignore my breakup and struggles, ignore Dok's difficulties and woe, ignore the problems of the world. Thats right. This is just a meaningless nonsense. No matter. Take your side and forget it. |
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awe is anyone..... <:^) <:^) <:^) |
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pawnt thumper, i did not share your pm to me with anyone. i did tell the mods that you told me about a potential violation, and we took action based on that. did i tell jd he could share that? no. do i care that he shared it? no. there was nothing personal or controversial about it. it was not like he violated a deep dark secret of yours or anything. i thought you were giving me a heads up like a good citizen. i took it at face value. seriously. all of us have things to do and more interesting and important things to discuss. why waste so much energy and bile on this meaningless tit for tat bs? let it go! oooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... |
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thumper in any way shape or form could be miscontrued as cicumventing the "ignore rule". the message came from you. what's the big deal. I did not read word for word correspondance, merely that you had said it could be a violation - no more no less. how did I twist it? |
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thumper |
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DOK personally sugggested its abondment for "you baby, kop". It was your suggestion and the point was to restart the thread because of my comments...in essence round-file it. Now you put it in reverse because you recognize the hypocrisy, too. You recognize that youve acted in a mannr completely inconsistent with the premise here...and dont want to own up to it. Buts its right here for all to read... including your baby, kop. Like he needs you to rescue him...you degrade him by even making this pitch...he is plenty able to defend himself without your odd remark, as he demonstrated.*** My typos, not withstanding (KOP is not my "baby" I meant the thread about bush was his baby). My point was that KOP's Bush discussion coudld be started as a new thread. This thread here, Bush thread there - no disappearance, no round-filing, no hypocrisy. I have not acted in any manner inconsistent with this club's premise and have, obviously, afforded you the same freedom. No one has deleted your posts or threatened you with booting, right? I'm not defending KOP, therfore cannot "degrade" him. I was responding to you, not for him. ***the point is that your ill mannered behavior and lack of integrity are okay as long as theyre aimed at the right guy. Yah, free speech..*** You dont like my opinion of you and I don't like your attitude, and now I lack integrity? You've been able to say anyting you've wanted here, evident by the fact that you have. See how it works? No one's been deleted or banned. ***So, I see where you guys are at...you wanna boot me for the conflict, spare yourself...I just thought I'd take a walk thru here to see if you guys were real or not, if you had it together or were just trying to act the part.*** no one has said a word about booting anyone, inclduing you, including your "disruption". stick around. we're glad you're here and you're welcome to be here. no one has made any comment otherwise. |
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