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From	Message
obviously 13-Sep-06, 09:56	1A Mod election debate #2 The mod thread should be open for all members. Everyone should have the right to defend their case if postings are subject of debate. Agree or disgree?
tugger 13-Sep-06, 10:20	agree, but only for sensible points... flooding it full of pointless comments and obnoxiousness should be frowned upon... free speech is great, but don't deliberately take advantage by drowning out conversations between mods and members, or it'll just get locked again... if you have something appropriate to say in the mod thread, then not being a mod shouldn't stop you...
zorroloco 13-Sep-06, 10:35	not saying i disagree but, if something in the mod thread needs to be addressed by you, there is no reason you cannot start a new thread addressing it. you could even copy and paste it in, and then address the point.
kementari 13-Sep-06, 10:52	Or you could just always take it to the complaints thread... ..which was pretty much a direct response to the need for a place to object to decisions made in the moderators thread.
bobbynox 13-Sep-06, 11:03	Disagree. The MOD thread is a place where the MODS can place comments without the noise of non-MODS. If a MOD appointed, not elected, I can see that there is a concern; but in our forum, having elected MODS presumes a higher-order of decision-making. There are methodologies available to voice one's concerns, but the MOD thread is not the place. Furthermore, MOD-discussions are not always public. This is a 'must have' because there are personalities involved and a MOD's path of coming to a conclusion about a deletion or banishment needs be private, not public. If not, the membership may loose confidence in the MOD and that is not good. If a MOD cannot make quality decisions the other MODS will pick up the slack.
proginoskes 13-Sep-06, 11:11	obviously we do NOT need extra comments in the mod thread. create a new "defense" thread and sticky it to the top. although, so far only one person seems to need to defend themself. maybe we can call it the obviously gripe thread? sticky it to the top. then whenever you feel like it, you can make comments.
kementari 13-Sep-06, 12:38	bobby Hey there... you know I love you, and I promise to vote for you if you quit capitalizing MOD all the time.   Other than that, yes, I agree. I know there is some resistance to the idea of moderators discussing things in private, but the simple truth is that it's going to happen. It takes time to be diplomatic and say things that could hurt peoples' feelings in a way that doesn't risk hurting peoples' feelings, and frankly, nobody should expect forum moderators to put that much time into our jobs unless it's a paid position, which it's not. Seeings as you've already gone public with the fact that some decisions are made in private, I'll post my original response to obviously's "I'm not interested in running for office, but every post I make is going to be about the best way to be a moderator thread #1." (And yes, that was meant as a bit of a sideways jab, and I'll do my penance for it, I'm sure. It was still funny.)
obviously 13-Sep-06, 12:48	agree >you could even copy and paste it in, and then address the point. Jeff, that was tried before with the unanimous vote issue but failed IMO cause discussion went on in two places. Also if a members is accused in a tread that is always on top I think they have the right to defend at that place. >without the noise of non-MODS suggesting to rephrase into "without the valuable input from fellow club members" >create a new "defense" thread and sticky it to the top. Two sticky treads? Seems to me more complicated. >so far only one person seems to need to defend themself So what's the big deal? I think the mod only thing was copied from LSF. What's against trying this new idea? It can be stopped at any time if it proves not to work.
kementari 13-Sep-06, 13:21	<<It can be stopped at any time if it proves not to work.>> That's not the point. The point is that the moderator's only thread is a place for people to *quickly* look up and find out why decisions are being made, assuming that decisions need to be made. There is an appropriate place to voice concerns about those decisions in the complaints thread, which was established to give everyone a chance to debate steering decisions publicly. <<suggesting to rephrase into "without the valuable input from fellow club members">> Thank you for your time and consideration in attempting to insure that all of our posts are sufficiently diplomatic. It is possible, although unlikely, that some of our fellow club members may have felt devalued by bobby's decision to use language that was not 110% PC. I believe, however, that most people here have a healthy sense of humor, and understand that bobby was simply exercising his right to gently mock the fact that we've been in existence for a little over a month and nearly a third of our posts have been about how to run a place that basically runs itself. To which I say, amen to all of that.
zorroloco 13-Sep-06, 13:24	there are 100 threads that are open to input from all members. there is one thread that is reserved for mods, who are doing an unpaid service to the club. i do not see what the problem is. i do think there should be one place for mods to discuss things (in the open) but without the thread turning into an open forum. have a problem with that? run for mod.
tugger 13-Sep-06, 13:35	actually, i disagree... the more i think about it, the more likely it is that if we have an open to all mods thread, then more private conversations will happen between mods, which is against what some people, myself included, believe this club should be about... if anyone wanted to discuss a matter in the mods thread publically, there is nothing to stop that person opening a thread regarding the said topic... if we want discussion between the mods to be transparant, then we should keep the mods thread for mods only... and if anyone thinks it unfair to have a mod only thread, then by all means start a non mod thread, where mods are not allowed to post! (though of course, the thread will still need moderating...) i nearly started one, then these elctions came about and i thought i should wait until i got 0 votes...!

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