chess online
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echo3 10-Oct-06, 12:25 |
 LondonistanIt asserts that Britain has lost its way morally and culturally and our weakness and the ensuing moral vacuum has paved the way to London becoming the European centre for radical Islam, this is an accomplished fact. Indeed, the author asserts that our appeasement of radical islamism is so complete that we are now afraid to critisize radical elements of the muslim community. Furthermore, our media has tacitly allowed the anti-semetic, radical islamists to claim Iraq and Israel as the major causes for Muslim unrest. The failure of the British people to stand up to this nonsense has allowed radical islam to steal the moral high ground as emplified by the danish cartoon protests in London where our police stood by while muslims openly called for murder and extermination. Have we surrendered our traditional British values and exchanged them for a focus on human rights at any cost? How have we managed to lose our way so badly and how do we regain the moral highground? |
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leo_london 10-Oct-06, 14:28 |
He said today.. "Speaking as somebody with three sisters and a very largely female Muslim family, there's not a single woman I know in my family or in their friends who would have accepted wearing the veil." Rushdie continues to say, "I think the battle against the veil has been a long and continuing battle against the limitation of women, so in that sense I'm completely on [Straw's] side. He was expressing an important opinion, which is that veils suck, which they do. I think the veil is a way of taking power away from women ". The publication of the Satanic Verses by Rushdie in 1989 triggered not just the fatwah from Iran but also riots in Pakistan, India and Turkey among Muslims who felt he had insulted the prophet. In the following decade, the book's Japanese translator was murdered and its Norwegian publisher and Italian translator seriously injured in separate attacks. Publisher Penguin received 5,000 abusive or threatening letters and 25 bomb threats. Just think about that. Japanese killed, Norwegian and Italian seriously injured, bomb threats, riots..all for the publication of a book in 1989..nothing to do with Iraq or Israel. I agree with you echo, the continued appeasement of radical Islamism will be our downfall. |
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bobbynox 10-Oct-06, 15:55 |
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echo3 10-Oct-06, 16:21 |
Let's hope... BTW Nice link Bobby, thanks for that. I've emailed David Cameron's office from the Conservative party website to see what their plans are and whether they intend to be more robust in reasserting British values. We seem to have become somehow ashamed of our past, our heritage. We've tripped over ourselves to be hospitable and welcoming to all. While we have slept a sizeable minority (some figures suggest 30,000 radicals out of 1.6 million UK muslims) have persuaded our government that they deserve special treatment, that they are somehow "victims" of all olur kindness to them. Our media have a lot to answer for. This time though, they have had helped push us into a downward spiral that some commentators (possibly Leo among them) feel may have reached a point of no return. |
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leo_london 10-Oct-06, 16:44 |
Bobby..yes, interesting link. Made more poignant by the fact that the memo was written by Guy Wilkinson, interfaith advisor to the Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams..a very leftish/liberal Bishop. |
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echo3 10-Oct-06, 17:42 |
Exactly Leo, it's.... Sadly, many people in the UK have bought into this "evil US, anti-war, anti-semite, victimisation" nonsense. By buying into the notion that all radical muslim unrest stems from Israeli / US / UK foreign policy in the mid-east, they have given our enemy within exactly what it wants - the appearance of widespread public support. Every anti-war comment, every supportive media article, every dumb consipracy theory, every exception to the rule that we give to these people, including letters/articles/public comment (even in here) give these people exactly what they want. In a time of war such acts would be called treachery. I suggest we are at war with radical islam now. In WWII there were a lot of slogans to "perk up" the British people. Things like "YOUR steadfastness, YOUR courage, YOUR resolve will help us to win the war". Time for some steadfastness, courage and resolve now I think don't you? |
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I can't believe what I'm reading... Somebody is actually talking about maybe standing up for our heritage, our morals, and our rights? Wow... I might have to become re-energized and give up on my thoughts of "lost cause". Thanks guys... I feel better now. |
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echo3 11-Oct-06, 00:01 |
I'd have thought..... From what I'm reading, America's greatest ally (...er... that's UK by the way...) has been almost fatally compromised by radical islam. I wonder though if the left wing in US politics might actually welcome a breakdown in the US/UK alliance? Saddle up softaire, I'm putting words into action, it's time to spread the word, generate support, galvanize the politicians, and shout WAKE UP to people in the UK and US before it's too late. |
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bnp... they were the reason i didn't vote at the last election, as if i did, it would've been for them... my reasons? multiculturism has gone wrong. it is no longer working for the good of this country. it was fine when it was those lovely chinese, and even the indians and bangledeshi's don't give us any greif. our problems are with muslims and eastern europeans. the muslims are stoking up racial tension to boiling point, and the eastern europeans bring with them organised crime... and i'm not generalising, here... i have friends who are eastern european, and i'm aware there are muslims here who respect british values... it's just the few that are causing problems that cannot be ignored... i notice there were race riots in windsor last week... while they were small scale, i can only see this type of thing becoming more frequent and more serious as time goes by... eventually, there will come a point where the average white british male will say "no more" and we will have civil unrest... when that happens, i want the ruling party to be on our side... so labour are out... and the tories are yet to convince me... a pessimistic outlook? of course, but i see nothing in this world to be optimistic about... |
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katonah 11-Oct-06, 06:41 |
Build a border |
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jaymar 11-Oct-06, 07:09 |
Ruth Kelly.. In it she is calling for direct dialogue with moderate muslims and has accused muslim leaders in the UK (like the muslim council of britain) of failing to address the extremist problem. She has offered government funding to muslim groups who root out extremism. I hope it isn't too late. |
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echo3 11-Oct-06, 07:12 |
WOW..... TheKatmeister, Tuggs, Leo, Softie and Bobby all in agreement!!!! I have asked Blair, Brown and cameron what their plans are by email. Hoping to get responses from their offices soon (!?) and we'll see what they have to say. I suspect that Jack Straw's veil comments are the first volley in labour's campaign against the renegade's. Softly, softly won't work though. We need law enforcement, forced extradition, a total immigration freeze. Oh and it would be handy if MI5 could actually get their butts in gear and do their bloody job for a change. I now see that I've been asleep through this as well. No wonder the BNP vote is rising. This could eclipse education and health as the big draw at the hustings next election. Brown better have a blackshirt in his wardrobe !!!!! Education is indeed a start, we really need the moderate Muslim Mullahs to do their stuff, and also get the news editors in for a good kicking if they continue to spew out this "UK/US is all bad nonsense". Now, where's the .50cal Kat? |
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leo_london 11-Oct-06, 07:36 |
The problems arise as tugger said, large numbers of Immigrants who have no wish to be considered British. Geniune multiculturalism does work, the USA is living proof. Why is it that migrants to America strive to be accepted as Americans whilst still managing to keep elements of their own cultural background ? The same was true for the vast majority of immigrants to the UK until fairly recently. I think a large minority of recent Muslim immigrants do not share the same aspirations that previous generations of immigrants shared. Many want to change society and the laws under which we live, that includes a large percentage of so called " moderates " according to a recent survey. Past generations of immigrants did start life in ghettos through economic circumstances, comparatively quickly they became immersed in main stream British society, bringing with them different cultural aspects that further added to our values and way of life. All that despite having to endure racial and/or religious taunts and worse. I just cant see the the majority of the Muslim population following that route..I hope I'm wrong. Its the Muslims themselves who need strong leadership, positive role models, people who are prepared to stick their heads above the parapet and reclaim their religion from the fanatics. People who can show that is perfectly reasonable to follow one's faith in a western democracy, a democracy filled with people from every corner of the earth who chose to live their lives in a myriad different ways..some ways that they may find offensive..its called freedom. |
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bobbynox 11-Oct-06, 08:38 |
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America by the Left to discriminate against Churches...Im glad to see that The English are seeing things for what they are...perhaps somebody around here might get the balls to follow the wiser accent... |
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echo3 11-Oct-06, 13:40 |
You know why DOK? The Church has been sidelined, anyone criticizing any minority is deemed to be racist or sexist or ageist or whatever cap the media can put on one's head. Family values are now completely diluted. Everyone is suddenly an expert in everything. Judges in the highest courts in the land take up their apointments by holding a press conference to expouse their views on divorce, gay rights, and immigration - I thought judges uphold the law, not politicize it??!! We are now in a situation where every act a President or Prime Minister makes is only accepted by the media if it is backed by International Law. International law is highly subjective, mostly made by committee and is not rooted in any national tradition. Give it a couple more years and Parliament will have to ring Brussels to get permission to change the loo paper in the House of Commons! |
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echo3 11-Oct-06, 13:44 |
ps Leo... I'm starting to feel like someone who has invited a guest to stay in one's home and after feeding them, supporting them, finding them a job, providing free healthcare, comes home to find them urinating on one's carpet. |
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echo3 12-Oct-06, 11:47 |
David Cameron's staff replied to my email as follows: Many thanks for your email to David Cameron - I'm replying on his behalf. We are lucky, here in Britain, to be able to practise our different faiths in relative peace, harmony and tolerance. But we must also acknowledge that there are a few deeply misguided people who don't believe in mutual respect. We saw that here in Britain on the 7th of July last year. The world is now a dangerous place and there are no limits to the harm that some people are prepared to inflict on others. The recent UK threat has now been downgraded to severe but the Home Secretary warns that attacks are still highly likely. David Cameron has warned that the Government is failing to be robust enough in the fight against Islamic terrorism and extremism, and has called for more investment in policing and security measures, backed by more rigorous enforcement of the law to ensure that terrorist suspects and their supporters are prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned or deported. David Cameron also criticised Labour ministers for a series of failings on national security, and described the attempt by alleged British-born Islamist terrorist to blow up passenger jets flying from UK airports as "deeply shocking" but "not surprising", and said: "I do not believe that the Government is doing enough to fight Islamist extremism at home, or to protect our security." While the Opposition wanted to work with the Government to protect our security the Government have done things they should not have done - like freeze the Home Office Budget for three years. There are things they have not done which they must do - like making intercept evidence available in court. And there are things they said they would do which they have not done - like following through on the Prime Minister's twelve point security plan and recommendations on community cohesion. At present, counter-terrorism is just one of many competing priorities for the Home Secretary: he is unable to provide the strong and dedicated leadership required to respond to the challenge posed by international terrorism. We have proposed that there should be a single, cabinet-level minister to co-ordinate, and be accountable for, national security. Conservatives have also long called for a single UK border police force to secure our borders and to deter and detect illegal immigrants. Our proposals have been supported by the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, the former President of ACPO and others. The Home Secretary's announcement, in July, of uniforms for passport control officers does not go nearly far enough - it is simply window-dressing. We also believe that a firm, fair, controlled immigration system is essential for good race and community relations, and for the orderly provision of public services. Conservatives have long called for an objective, points-based system to determine who we allow to enter the country and under what conditions. We are concerned that the numbers of immigrants and migrants in the country are under-estimated. As a result, many councils face burdens which are not properly funded by central government, with council tax payers having to foot the bill. As you may know, David Cameron recently announced the launch of a Policy Group on National and International Security, which will examine all aspects of the UK's national security, from both a domestic and an international perspective. Our National Security Group is looking at terrorism, the rise of Islamic fundamentalism, threats from failed and failing states, the proliferation of unconventional weapons, the nature of our open society, and the need to build community cohesion in an increasingly diverse culture. The Group is also investigating the structure of policing in the UK, including reform designed to bring local policing closer to local populations and to provide a fully effective force or forces to deal with regional, national, and international policing challenges, including international terrorism. The effectiveness of border control, the security services, and administrative structures in Whitehall to deal with the threat of terrorist attack, will also be analysed. As part of its work on security, the group will also consider issues relating to social cohesion - including questions of community relations, immigration policy and their linkages with the UK's foreign policy. At the same time, the group will examine the UK's geo-political positioning vis a vis the EU, NATO, relations with the USA and with Commonwealth Countries, as well as with less-developed countries and the emerging giants; and will also examine UK defence policy in the light of the current and emerging security challenges which the country faces. Thank you once again for taking the time and trouble to write. Yours sincerely, |
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leo_london 12-Oct-06, 16:07 |
" As part of its work on security, the group will also consider issues relating to social cohesion - including questions of community relations, immigration policy and their linkages with the UK's foreign policy. " Thats the part I would like to see more emphasis on..long term. " We also believe that a firm, fair, controlled immigration system is essential for good race and community relations, and for the orderly provision of public services. Conservatives have long called for an objective, points-based system to determine who we allow to enter the country and under what conditions. " They cant help adding some bulls**t...the problem didnt start in 1997, they had 18 years in government ! |
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echo3 13-Oct-06, 10:43 |
Right on Leo...... |
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Re: Echo3.......... The way he carries on one would think his homeland was as blemish free as he paints himself.... The fact is one of the most insidious periods of modern human history, far surpassing even the holocaust was the filthy slave trade that his ancestors, and mine for that matter, were implicitly involved in.... In researching another topic some years ago I became aware of this shameful period of British history..... I see Tony Blair has now acknowledged this "sad" period in his country's history... He is "sad" but in his typically spineless way Blair wont say sorry because that would be an admission of guilt and golly gosh we cant have that can we old chap....?? Heavens no. Sure it is sad that countless numbers of Africans were dragged from their homeland, chained up on board some hell-hole of a ship and then, if they were lucky enough to survive the hellish voyage, sold into slavery somewhere in the Carribean so Echos poncy f*****g great-great grandfather could have sugar in his tea.... But will we take responsibility, the way the Germans were made to take responsibility for the death camps?? Of course not... we are far too slippery for that.... |
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jaymar 28-Nov-06, 00:42 |
I take.. I am English nay British from a celtic background. My ancestors 200 years ago and the rest were eking out a living in some god forsaken peat bog somewhere. We were not landed gentry, aristocracy or from a background privileged enough to indulge in slavery. However I am sorry for the Africans who were ripped from their homes. I'm sorry for anyone in history who has been persecuted even though I am not personally responsible. I think an apology only counts if it comes from the perpetrator and Blair apologising for modern Britain means nothing. However it will mean something once it hits the courts and reparations are sought. Then we will all be paying for the mistakes of hundreds of years ago. Not the Arabs who were involved, not the African kings who sold their own people down the river, just post modern, politically correct Britain. The soft touches of the world. I'm not sure where you would draw the line. How far back into history do we start looking for injustices that need to be righted today? People have been exploited throughout history. It might not be right but the only impact we can have is to stop it happening now. The past is past. Learn from it and don't make the same mistakes again. |
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SAD..... In Echo's one-dimensional world, even mentioning this, would be seen as giving succour to the "terrorists"....now that's what I call....SAD!!! |
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Jay... Secondly, when you say "the past is the past", I have to ask why does that seem to apply to "us" and not "them".... For example that cretin Ratzinger drags up stuff from the 14th century and "we" accept it as valid but the slave-trade, which was only abolished within the British Empire in 1838, is somehow ancient history... Sorry Jay, but it just dosen't work for me.... |
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Yeah! Those useless wayward sons, those colonies. We gave them everything and when things got sweet with all the free labor, they turned their backs on us! We will teach them to bite the hand that feeds them. Or...was it this one: my brothers and sisters, we have all made mistakes, and we must forgive each other our pasts. No one is perfect, no, not one. We all come from the same source, through evolution out of africa. Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who. We are all related somehow. If only we could all just get along. Peace is our only hope! And on a relatively unrelated sidenote, not all black people are from africa, nor are they from america. Just because you see a black guy on tv, doesn't mean he is african american. He could be Jamaican for all you know. |
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jaymar 28-Nov-06, 06:45 |
I think.. The slave trade (or certainly GBs part) has been confined to the dustbin of history. We abolished it. Its gone. (Although I believe it still lurks in some corners of the world). We can regret that it ever happened but I think we are just paying lip service to political correctness. Pawn, chances are the Jamaican's ancestors came out of Africa on a slave boat. Many of them were shipped to the West Indies to work on the sugar plantations, owned by wealthy Brits among others and doing wonders for our economy at the time. Thats why there is such a fuss about getting an apology now. With one of them under their belts the descendents can beat a course to the European Court of Human Rights and claim some of that wealth back. |
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leo_london 28-Nov-06, 09:10 |
I doubt there is a nation in the world that has a completely guilt-free history. In New Zealand the Maoris were used as slaves by white settlers, often sold by their own leaders. They in turn had enslaved their enemies from other tribes. Slavery must be the second oldest profession, most of us here will have decended from ancestors who were little more than slaves at some time...even the illustrious echo. |
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