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kingofpawns 18-Oct-06, 18:12	Bush Accepts Iraq-Vietnam Comparison Bush says referring to the democrats: "It's not questioning their patriotism. I think it's questioning their judgment." The real issue is Bush's judgment and the sooner we end ond-party rule in the US, the sooner we will find the best way to end the bloodshed in Iraq. ******************* Bush Accepts Iraq-Vietnam Comparison George Stephanopoulos Interviews President Bush on Iraq, the Midterms and His Legacy WASHINGTON, Oct. 18, 2006 — President Bush said in a one-on-one interview with ABC News' George Stephanopoulos that a newspaper c olumn comparing the current fighting in Iraq to the 1968 Tet offensive in Vietnam, which was widely seen as the turning point in that war, might be accurate. Stephanopoulos asked whether the president agreed with the opinion of columnist Tom Friedman, who wrote in The New York Times today that the situation in Iraq may be equivalent to the Tet offensive in Vietnam almost 40 years ago. "He could be right," the president said, before adding, "There's certainly a stepped-up level of violence, and we're heading into an election." "George, my gut tells me that they have all along been trying to inflict enough damage that we'd leave," Bush said. "And the leaders of al Qaeda have made that very clear. Look, here's how I view it. First of all, al Qaeda is still very active in Iraq. They are dangerous. They are lethal. They are trying to not only kill American troops, but they're trying to foment sectarian violence. They believe that if they can create enough chaos, the American people will grow sick and tired of the Iraqi effort and will cause government to withdraw." Bush said he could not imagine any circumstances under which all U.S. troops would be withdrawn from Iraq before the end of his presidency. "You mean every single troop out? No," he told Stephanopoulos. Bush also had some tough words for Democrats, saying that pulling troops from Iraq would be the equivalent of surrender. "If we were to leave before the job is done, in my judgment, the al Qaeda would find a safe haven from which to attack. This is exactly what they said," Bush said. The president insisted he was not disparaging his opponents. "It's not questioning their patriotism. I think it's questioning their judgment," he said.
deadofknight 18-Oct-06, 20:37	Bush Accepts Iraq-Vietnam Comparison is not an accurate headliner from what I just read...he basically said "he might be right..." and was specifically talking about the Tet offensive...not the entire war. The President made some astute historical links that might lead one to conclude that the 1968 Tet Offesnive might be comparable to the current status. Why does the Left always exaggerate. Its almost as if you want it to be Vietnam...
soulcrates 18-Oct-06, 20:40	Did he admit being too chicken to fight in either?
zorroloco 18-Oct-06, 20:40	dok <Why does the Left always exaggerate.> always? always?? could this be an exagerration?
soulcrates 18-Oct-06, 20:48	The president's judgement is to say leaving Iraq will create a safe haven for Al-Queda. He says this knowing well that Al-Queda was not active in Iraq prior to invasion, and that's supposed to bring support for the war? The typical answer is "better there than here". No wonder most of the world hates Americans, if that is how they feel about human life.
softaire 18-Oct-06, 21:00	Soul & Jeff Is there some reason you are not addressing the intent of this thread? KOP brings up a relevent topic. Is Iraq like Vietnam? Why are you both not addressing the topic, but instead making some lame-a**, non related comment? The question KOP brings up is a good one and could have many discussions. Is Iraq like Vietnam? Is the current situation like Tet where we were winning the war but political sentiment from the press cost us the public support and ultimately the war? Will we "cut and run", now or somewhere in the near future once again, like Vietnam? If we do treat this like Vietnam, what are the repercussions?
zorroloco 18-Oct-06, 21:03	softie i am not in the mood for a discussion about the merits of the comparision between vietnam and iraq (there are many similarities and just as many differences). dok mad a universal statement about a huge group of people and how they always do something. i called him on his generalization...is that ok with you, oh monitor of relevance?
softaire 18-Oct-06, 21:06	Jeff You are still missing the point and cluttering up an intersting (possibly intersting) thread with junk mail. You just obstinate or what?
soulcrates 18-Oct-06, 21:07	I hate being a broken record softaire. I see relationships with Vietnam all the time. I have posted a video explaining how the attack in the gulf of tonkin was a set-up to trigger a reactionary measure on the peninsula. 9/11 seems to be a similar attack set-up for reason to invade Iraq. Expecting weak resistance when bringing military force into a country is naive. It was done in Vietnam, even though the Vietnamese had proven themselves earlier against other nations, and it was done in Iraq. One thinks of "Mission Accomplished" or Dick Cheney, in 2003 saying, "The insurgency is in it's final throes". These are similarities between the two.
zorroloco 18-Oct-06, 21:11	softie soooorrrryyyyyyy.... wouldn't want to clutter your precious thread... jeeez...sensitive, are we?
soulcrates 18-Oct-06, 21:18	Here's a documentary that connects more than just Vietnam and Iraq, but many other conflicts started by the United States, and Nazi Germany. video.google.com" target="_blank">-> video.google.com
echo3 19-Oct-06, 00:01	Bush is wrong These guys ARE unpatriotic, pity he wasn't brave enough to say so. If we continually allow people to second guess foreign policy we WILL have another vietnam.
soulcrates 19-Oct-06, 00:11	If we're not allowed to question the government, then how is it FOR the people BY the people? If there is a travesty of justice, and the government neglects to do anything about it, isn't it the duty of the people to do something? Isn't that why our constitution was created?
soulcrates 19-Oct-06, 00:14	As for KOP's original statement. I for one understand why the Tet-offensive worked so well, and I also understand why during Ramadan there are always stepped up violent attacks, as well as record breaking loss of lives, for all sides involved. Ramadan is a month, Tet is one day. The difference is easy to see.
jaymar 19-Oct-06, 00:23	What.. ..undermines the "left" is this tendency for it to go a bit loony. So we have videos linking the USA with Nazi Germany and claims that 9/11 was a Bush plan. Very few people are going to take those sort of ideas seriously and the ones that do, well its because its what they want to believe. I'm not sure that Bush isn't brave enough to call these people unpatriotic. He's obviously believes in democracy and is trying to take a balanced view but I think he has already, probably a long time ago, considered softaires question and reached a conclusion. "What happens if we treat this like Vietnam"?. When the US got out of Vietnam, the world didn't end and S.E Asia didn't domino to communism as feared. The Vietcong didn't bring the war to the US mainland. Its a very different scenario in Iraq. If we leave now then the country will fall to extremism and those extremists will come after us. Unlike the Vietcong they have global ambitions and are willing to fight on a global front. Even if we hold them in Iraq they will pop up elsewhere. I think we could be in for decades of fighting.
soulcrates 19-Oct-06, 00:34	Bush plan? lol Right, the guy can't even spell nuclear (Nucular?). He's just rich enough and with low enough morals to be the perfect puppet. Dick Cheney is in charge, and he was the leader of this country on 9/11. Who has benefitted from 9/11? finance.yahoo.com" target="_blank">-> finance.yahoo.com
jaymar 19-Oct-06, 02:05	That's.. ..quite a leap. I've just looked up Halliburton on wiki and on the halliburtonwatch site. It strikes me that there are charges of corporate impropriety and war profiteering being levelled at the company that need to be resolved. However to come up with a link along the lines of Cheney planned 9/11 to instigate an invasion of Iraq to profit Halliburton? Sorry that tells me that someone has come up with a conclusion and is bending the facts to fit.
echo3 19-Oct-06, 02:07	Oh -o We're veering left again. 9/11 is like a magnet, can't you stay on course? No problem with questioning the government but not to undermine democratically agreed policy when there's a war on. It's pretty straightforward really. We have a UN mandate - who needs a soulcrates mandate? What happens when the enemy hear that there's a split in the resolve of the US and the UK to continue with the war? Do you not agree that helps the insurgents? Creates more body-bags? Impacts on the morale of our troops? If the insurgents even start to think we're beaten, it will provide them with additional impetus. This undermining of governement at a time of war is a form of terrorism and should be treated as such. Are you 5th columnists really so keen to help our enemies?
soulcrates 19-Oct-06, 12:12	Insurgents? Who are the insurgents? America or native Iraqis? How can war be brought up without questioning why? If we have to do as we're told, where is our freedom? What type of democratic society are we in, where the president cannot be questioned? I for one don't think Iraq was justified, and if I question it, I'm labeled anti-American? I stand up for the constitution, yet conservatives stand up for Bush. Who is the true American?
jaymar 19-Oct-06, 12:37	soul.. "What type of democratic society are we in, where the president cannot be questioned?" It seems to me that he has, is and will be questioned at every turn. You are in a very healthy democracy. Ok, you might not have the president that you want but there's always the next time. Of course foreign affairs are just part of the equation and as Clinton said (I think) "It's the economy stupid".(not aimed at you, just a quote) You need to find a realistic alternative. If you can't then maybe you could just start blowing people up. Thats how AQ operate.
soulcrates 19-Oct-06, 13:49	Ok, Jaymar we agree that I'm allowed to question the president, right? Then do you agree with Echo3 that it's "undermining of government at a time of war" and, "is a form of terrorism"? I'm just trying to figure out why it's so difficult to question the president's obviously questionable decision making ability.
qiwi 19-Oct-06, 14:30	There's a war on......?? It seems Echo is of the opinion that any words or action that may give succour to the enemy or demoralise the folks at home is virtually an act of treason..... Following that line of reasoning, why isn't he writing to the appropriate authorities complaining vociferously about the courts martial of a group of marines for brutally gang raping a 14 year old girl, murdering her family, including her 5 year old sister, and then shooting her in the head and incinerating her body. Surely bringing this to the attention of the public while "there's a war on" cant be good for morale.....
flcrackers 19-Oct-06, 14:40	soulcrates writes... "I for one don't think Iraq was justified, and if I question it, I'm labeled anti-American?" If I may ask, why don't you think Iraq was not justified, in your opinion? Perhaps you attended other US Intelligence breifings that the President and members of the US Congress were not privy to. Do you have reliable and verifible information as to what Sadaam did with his WMD's. What efforts did you make during the 12 years of diplomatic wrangling and failures that preceeded the invasion of Iraq. Do you know how many times the US and Britain bombed the Iraqis during that 12 years? Just curious if you know the history since the first Gulf war, which btw was only a cease fire. And I am not labeling you "anti-American".
zorroloco 19-Oct-06, 14:45	crackers don't you think the burdon of proof belongs to those who start a war? wmds? where are they?
tugger 19-Oct-06, 16:46	i'll throw my weight in here... why wasn't the war justified...? because iraq posed no threat to america or britain. and there was no united nations resolution permitting the use of force.

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