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From	Message
echo3 20-Oct-06, 07:25	Idiots run our country & military? A number of people here are wedded to the idea that our political and military leaders are a collective of criminal morons. If this is so, how do these people get elected and/or rise to the top of the tree? Is the success of the moron mirrored in every field of human endeavour? If so, what does that say about us as a race?
zorroloco 20-Oct-06, 07:31	it says we are en route to extinction!
echo3 20-Oct-06, 07:34	aside from that jeff.... ... that's way too easy
zorroloco 20-Oct-06, 08:01	seriously i honestly believe that (no scoffing please) capitalism is a large part of the problem. our value system has become so skewed towards material gain and collecting crap that we have forgotten how to value the truly important things in life such as family, community, and inner growth (spirituality or religion). as a result, we elect people based on bad values and incorrect assumptions about what we want/need.
leo_london 20-Oct-06, 08:21	Collectives... An idiocy of politicians...I like it.
kingofpawns 20-Oct-06, 09:15	echo... As you well know, there are both brilliant generals and total bafoons in the best militaries. Both find a way to rise to the top. With politicians, there are some brilliant ones, but probably more bafoons. The bad think about politicians in a democracy is that the one thing they have to be good at is being elected and not being a good leader. Bush, for example, has been just good and "lucky" enough to be elected, but when it comes to leadership and making good decisions, he is the most incompetent person ever to hold the office of president of the USA. I also agree with what Jeff said above.
zorroloco 20-Oct-06, 09:22	echo just to clarify. i am not at all convinced that the military leaders are stupid or incompetent. they have been put into an untenable situation and, for the most part, are doing the best they can with the dearth of resources they have been given. contrary to what you keep saying, i am not against the military per say, nor against the generals, and certainly not against the poor enlisted men who bear the brunt of bad political decisions.
leo_london 20-Oct-06, 10:41	kop.."The bad think about politicians in a democracy is that the one thing they have to be good at is being elected and not being a good leader." That is very true. If you look back over the years, the finest " brains " in politics rarely rise to the top. Politics is a " game " and those that are adept at playing that game will be successful. Another drawback ( in Britain ) is the party system. I know a couple of politicians fairly well, on their own away from the media they are both bright, intelligent people...watch them on " Question Time ", or any similar tv programme, and they just chant the usual party-line " mantra ".
kingofpawns 20-Oct-06, 12:38	leo... You see that here too. Take John McCain in the republican party. He wants to be president so bad, he will sell his soul to the devil. For example, he objected to the "terrorism bill" and then "compromised" on a version that was worse than the version he objected to.
echo3 20-Oct-06, 13:21	There was one... ... honest politician. I can't remember his name, it was about 8 or so years ago. he was the leader of the green party. he resigned because, in his words "in order to get into power I would have to so corrupt my policies and bin everything I have ever stood for that there is no point in standing". Sad, sad state of affairs.
captaingoodvibes 20-Oct-06, 20:07	lets make Al Gore president of the US whether he wants it or not....
soulcrates 20-Oct-06, 21:44	Ralph Nader? echo3, I was too young to vote for him the first time around, but I would have. It would seem that in a capitalistic society, money is what buys power, and no matter how that individual came about the riches, it demands respect. Look at the mafia, or gangster rappers like Tupac, Biggie, Jay-Z, etc. Entire groups of gangsters who broke the law, to gain enough money to make music, and that's what fills the television, and airwaves. I agree with Mr. Nader, or is it Dr.?
echo3 21-Oct-06, 01:37	I agree Soul.... ... the plain fact is that political parties have a fundamental problem. They have to start out sking themselves "what do we want to achieve" then next comes "what policies can we come up with to achieve it" next is "which of these will actually gain us votes" on to "none? ok what do we have to do to get elected".... etc etc The process becomes so bastardised that the original ideas get lost somewhere.
soulcrates 21-Oct-06, 01:45	With the dawn of the internet age, it could be possible to have an implied-democracy, but only if there is more freedom of information, and thus a better educated class of voters. This country was created for the people, by the people, so why can't we have more influence on what our taxes are spent paying for. Of course with education stymied, and the cost of universities ever increasing, we would need something to spread this knowledge more effectively amongst the voters.
daverundle 21-Oct-06, 05:26	Professor Peter's principle explains it perfectly echo he said 'everyone rises to the level of their own incompetence'! As for how they get elected cos they are the only ones who can be assed to stand (or rich enough depending where you live).
echo3 21-Oct-06, 12:33	This is all..... ..... extremely depressing

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