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bobbynox 04-Dec-06, 14:45	Well, I guess that solves it. HE IS NOT EXTREMIST! Yeah!
zorroloco 04-Dec-06, 14:45	well i do judge people on religion! if they have it, then i judge that they are wrong! not bad. not evil. not worthy of persecution or death or forced conversion. just wrong and ignorant and hopelessly gullible. am i guilty of an anti-religious extremism?
bobbynox 04-Dec-06, 14:47	I guess that solves it----JEFF IS EXTREMIST! Yikes!
jaymar 04-Dec-06, 14:48	As you.. ..are obviously slow on the uptake I refer you back to my original point. The Nazis wiped out the jews because they were jewish. Not because the jews were attacking them or undermining their society but purely because they were jewish. There is no comparison between that and todays western societies being nervous around extremist muslims. They have a quite clearly stated aim to undermine our way of life. They have shown this by plotting and carrying out a number of atrocities. I am still waiting for a moderate muslim to condemn this. All you have done is excuse it. A moderate muslim would be just as concerned as the rest of us about this attempted destruction of democracy. Where do you stand?
zorroloco 04-Dec-06, 14:51	moderate religion does not exist. read 'the end of faith' by sam harris. here is a ny times review: www.samharris.org" target="_blank">-> www.samharris.org
soulcrates 04-Dec-06, 14:51	Jaymar, "Why is it that as soon as anyone condemns muslim extremists they are accused of attacking all Islam. Its a trick and a distraction and it just does not wash." You asked the right question. In the Qur'an it is clearly stated that in order to defeat a more powerful occupying nation, you must not fight directly this powerful nation, but indirectly to win. These tactics were used in Afghanistan against the Soviets, and worked to evict them from their lands. These are not the actions of extremists, but of Muslims who are called extremists. There are actions that are from extremists, but when every justified attack is called extremist, that generalizes it to the entire 1.2 billion muslims who follow the Qur'an specifically. This is the problem, and people who haven't the knowledge, think that calling it radical Islam, or extreme Islam isn't stereotyping the entire religion. It is, and that is where the discrepancies lie. Al-Sadr, the grandson of the founder of Sadr City, or at least whom they named it after, is the leading "extremist" in that city. During the onset of the invasion, Al-Sadr, and his "extremists" assisted the United States in finding those in power, who would resist, and arresting them, or killing them. This deal was made so that Sadr City would be spared US control, but when the US decided to install a military base there, and subsequently liquor stores, and pornographic video stores, Al-Sadr began to dismantle these shops. At night they would get firebombed, and the business owners would be put out of business. This happened a couple of times before the US troops decided to attack Al-Sadr's troops, this resulted in some of the heaviest fighting in Iraq the summer of 2003. They're considered extremists, and terrorists, because they do not wish to have alcohol in their city, or pornography. Now tell me where that doesn't end up stereotyping the entire Islamic community?
zorroloco 04-Dec-06, 14:53	soul <They're considered extremists, and terrorists, because they do not wish to have alcohol in their city, or pornography.> well...most of us, if we bombed someone's shop, because we disagree with what they sell, would be called extremist, doncha think?
zorroloco 04-Dec-06, 14:56	christian extremism for example, isn't that what abortion clinic bombers are doing? destroying someone's business because they disagree with what happens there? extremism, right?
soulcrates 04-Dec-06, 15:02	Jeff, what would you do? They were given an offer, and the US renegged on the deal. How do you legally remove liquor stores and pornography shops in Iraq? Perhaps there is where you'll see their power was not in politics, but actions. Initially they weren't against humans, but after a few mosque burnings in retaliation against these actions, the human toll has increased.
zorroloco 04-Dec-06, 18:42	soul even if i grant that blowing up shops is an appropriate response to loathing and fear of alcohol and bodies, which i do not, you will have to admit that that behavior is pretty extreme...so...extremists?
kementari 04-Dec-06, 19:28	...nah, just misunderstood. And excellent call on End of Faith. That was a great book.
proginoskes 04-Dec-06, 19:51	the evils acts of men are an indictment of the human condition - blaming religion is nothing more than passing the buck, simplistic, appealing to simple minds . . . the greatest attrocities of our wonderful modern age have been committed by the atheists - go figure - getting rid of God and panacea? I wish you could hear me snort in derision . . .
soulcrates 04-Dec-06, 21:15	Extremists? Wouldn't we be able to call Bush an extremist for attacking Iraq pre-emptively? Using that same theory, I think we could.
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