Log in  
Sign up

Play online chess!

From	Message
obsteve 10-Jan-11, 17:52	Heap big Problem Here's an old one- I have a heap of sand and take away the grains one by one. Is it still a heap when only one grain remains? If not, when did it change from a heap to a non-heap?
coopershawk 15-Jan-11, 22:15	False Dichotomy? Is this not an example of a false dichotomy? The question presumes incorrectly that the sand is either a "heap" or "not a heap." The term "heap" is subjective so the sand may not be either, or it may be both. This particular fallacy is a favorite of demagogues the world over.
obsteve 19-Jan-11, 16:48	Feeling argumentative... I have a heap of sand, of that there is no doubt. It is not a "not a heap", it is definitely a heap, made of sand, belonging to me. My heap. If you saw my heap of sand, I have no doubt you would agree, "ok, that's a heap of sand", or "yes that's sand, and it's a heap of the stuff", or some such similar utterance. perhaps you might call it a pile (if you preferred), or even a mound, or perhaps simply "a large quantity of sand". I strongly refute your suggestion my heap can simultaneously be a heap and a non-heap. I am quite offended.
darwin09 19-Jan-11, 18:44	When does. . . . . . a molehill become a mountain? When my wife decides it's so.
obsteve 20-Jan-11, 17:02	That'll be just about the final straw then?
shamash 21-Jan-11, 14:09	from Quantitative change to Qualitative change you're moving from quantitative change of state to qualitative change. from a change in quantity to a change in quality. (Karl Marx offers a good discussion of this when he considers the example of a man who loses the hairs of his head one by one until he is in a state of baldness.)
obsteve 21-Jan-11, 17:44	quantitative to qualitative Hi Shamash, it sounds like a similar paradox- hairy minus one hair is still hairy But could you please explain what you mean by quantitative to qualitative change? Steve
shamash 21-Jan-11, 18:13	when quantitative change becomes qualitative change 2 Qualitative states: By definition, a hairy head is a head with hair. hair grows on it. a bald head is a head with no more hair. hair no longer grows on it. Quantitative change: a hairy head with a million hairs is a head with hair a head losing hair but still with ten hairs is a head with hair a head losing all but one hair growing is still a head with hair but a head with nothing growing -- is a bald head. When the head with hair loses its last hair, and its ability to grow hair -- it undergoes a qualitative change from a head with hair growth to baldness. (and there are Better examples that hair. I think atomic theory offers examples in terms of change of state, the photo-electric effect, and an electron shifting its orbital level)
antinephilehi 22-Jan-11, 09:10	sand everywhere. What if I have two heaps with sand? IN the first we have 4 cubic sand.and in the second we have 7cubic sand. What do we get if we put them together?
sonata296 22-Jan-11, 11:28	a lot of sand for sure
obsteve 22-Jan-11, 12:21	Hairy v Bald, hmmm I'd say a if a person had but one or two hairs on their head they were still bald. I think I'm with cascadejames on this one- I think it's totally subjective. Thanks for the Q-Q lowdown Shamash, and I'm tempted to say a heap is not a quantity either, but a quality- ie the manner in which the sand is erm "heaped" I've just had a random idea. Let's say I was an artist, and decided to craft my heap of sand into a sand sculpture (for example, a representation-of-the-temptation-of-christ-in-the-desert) Same quantity, different quality? Then I start removing grains of sand- at what point does it become a non-representation-of-the-temptation-of-christ-in-the-desert? Antinephilehi- we have 11 cubic sand!
antinephilehi 22-Jan-11, 13:35	Really Obsteve,I thought it whould give us one heap of sand.

GameKnot: play chess online, free online chess games database, monthly chess tournaments, Internet chess league, chess teams, chess clubs, online chess puzzles and more.