chess online
| From | Message | ||
|---|---|---|---|
|
 Asceticism"The Way of Aloneness" is a C17th code which promotes a very ascetic life In my opinion life is there to be lived, and I don't see much point in holding back from the plethora of pleasures and pains of existence. Any thoughts? |
||
|
Spiritual The Ascetic way of living guide the human being toward that spiritual life. A s we get older it makes a lot of sense to embrace and live fully our spiritual life; and it takes a responsibility and self control for the individual to commit this new era of life mode,. |
||
|
The supreme goal of Buddhism? noble truth (the first of four central tenants of Buddhism) is that life is suffering. They then go on to say what causes suffering and that there is an end to suffering (enlightenment) and lay out a series of rules to live by that follow this path. To have a life without suffering prior to the achievement of enlightenment is theoretically impossible. There are a variety of opinions within buddhism as to wether enlightenment can take place in one lifetime or many. To say that the supreme goal of buddhism was (past tense?) to have a life without suffering is using a very broad brush indeed. I think that some people who are extremely introverted may find that the aesthetic life to be suitable, but doubt very much that this way of life is suited to a great variety of people. I also feel that the aesthetic life places itself in a very small box from which to view the world. Why can one not live a life in society and be spiritual at the same time? I question this all or nothing approach to living in any faith. |
||
|
Is extreme deprivation healthy for the soul? It is too easy for deprivation and mortification to become destructive. |
||
|
jim. . . |
||
|
what if the potential to achieve, I know that deprivation of the senses certainly can result in some interesting trips, so I suppose it is possible that a life wholly stripped bare could actually be pretty rewarding in other ways. |
||
|
oh yes, |
||
|
Sensory deprivation vs. deprivation of experience. Through experimentation over many thousands of years, man has discovered the purpose and use of many things on earth. (I am sure there are many more to go.) The key is to use these things properly. Whereas alcohol and even marijuana are fairly harmless in moderation (I can't stress the word moderation enough) drugs like heroin and Oxycontin should not be used recreationally. I have seen the results. Ecstasy from sexual pleasure must also be taken in measured doses; too much can lead to addiction and depravity. To deprive oneself of life's pleasures in order to achieve enlightenment is foolishness. How can one achieve wisdom without experience of a multitude of different things? Without wisdom, there can be no higher plane for the soul to attain. Nirvana is not a temporary blissful feeling. It is a sustained heightened awareness of the nature of God and man's purpose on earth. If you want an "interesting trip" then just drop a hit of blotter acid and watch the walls melt but don't confuse it with having attained a higher consciousness, you'd be kidding yourself. |
||
|
julianas 15-Jan-12, 00:23 |
The womb But only after living there at least 7 months. |
||
|
Please don't Split Hairs Getting back to the topic, my point is that asceticism is a dead end. Renouncing ones earthly possessions, living on a diet of one nut and one leaf and performing daily flagellation rituals can achieve nothing. Asceticism is an empty experience. In fact, one can develop a vain attachment to the deprivation itself, supplanting one group of attachments for another far more unpleasant attachment. Siddhartha Gautama did not achieve enlightenment until he abandoned his path of asceticism. This fact alone should prove my point. |
||
|
Hi Jimjano I can see the attraction of a basic, committed life. I don't think it would work for me, but you can see it works for monks of various persuasions. The call to give up your material possessions in direct exchange for spiritual rewards crosses religious boundaries. Can it really be ascribed to foolishness so quickly? |
||
|
Vows of Poverty It is the deprivation of tasty and sufficient food, and mortification of the flesh that I am most concerned about. That along with poverty is foolishness. The monastic life, in the West, is simple, not extremely comfortable but not a real hardship. One is housed, clothed and fed. One works hard to support the community and the rest of ones time is devoted to study and prayer. That life is not true asceticism in the classical sense. If ones duties include soliciting donations then so be it. It is not the same as living on the street and performing acts of self-mutilation and then passing the hat round to a crowd of partly amazed and partly disgusted on-lookers. I believe fakirs and people like them should give their existence a re-think. I believe people who profess to have achieved enlightenment through such behavior are charlatans. |
||
|
Sure, there are the David Blaines out there, who stand on poles and live in ice coffins and pass round the hat, as you say, but I think that is wholly different from those who are abstaining from earthly pleasures in order to build up a spiritual heavenly reward I'm pretty sure Jesus could be considered an ascetic, what with leaving his family, becoming a beggar, living on alms, fasting in the desert, getting crucified. Not too moderate an ascetic either. I find it hard giving anything up for Lent. And, while I'm at it, my next door neighbour and his family forgo eating during the day for a month during Ramadan. They must get something from it |
||
|
Obsteve, please read carefully. David Blaine is a talented magician and possibly a psychic. He does not claim to have divine aid or heightened awareness as far as I know. It seems off-topic, but it's your thread. Jesus of Nazareth was not, repeat not, an ascetic. He ate regularly, (forty days in the desert not withstanding) he ate meat, drank wine, very likely had sexual relations with Mary Magdalene, (the early church believed this and therefore labeled her as a prostitute. Her role as a possible paramour for the Christ would undermine the Church's insistence in celibacy for the priesthood, the reasons for this were most likely financial) he left his family as any minister would do when called on a mission but he remained in contact with them. He deprived himself only of negative emotions. He did not walk the way of aloneness or asceticism or anything like it. His attachment to his followers was profound. It is clear from the gospels that he did not wish to be crucified although he was aware that it would happen. The Agony in the Garden of Gethsemene makes this plain. He begged God the Father for an alternative: "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass me by." (Matthew 26:49) Priests, ministers, monks, nuns and rabbis across the globe make their livings on contributions as do the CEO's of not for profit charitable organizations, it does not make them ascetics. Muslims fast during sunlight hours in the lunar month of Ramadan on their religious calender, the deprivation is temporary, the discomfort minimal and the gesture is mostly symbolic although I welcome a response from any Islamic member of the club to set me straight on that. In my own humdrum life, I have practiced the path of the excesses and the path of deprivation, ultimately to find them both empty places. There is a Middle Way. Discipline, hard work, moderation in all things, study and meditation or prayer (or both) and ample time for hobbies and leisure activities like spending time with the family. Live, learn and love everyone: it's not a terribly difficult way to live and I believe it is the right one. |
||
|
Hi Jim "Invention by confusion", my friend I take that as a compliment but it is not my intention here. Probably just poor reasoniong skills, please accept my apologies We are, I believe, in agreement regarding the worth of asceticism to ourselves. Although I couldnt pretend to have really tried it. Nor complete hedonism. Just shades of the above. It's the worth of it to other people I think is interesting. I love the point you make about symbolic asceticism. One thing I am certain of, though, is that David Blain is a magician, anc certainly not a psychic |
Log in 
