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ribbleton 11-Oct-07, 03:51	'Irrationalism' v 'Rationalism 'Irrationalists' falsely supposes rationalists are conceited in some way and knows the answers to everything. Rationalists believe the same thing about moral luminaries who propose that they have some special intuitive mystical insight into spiritual matters and the ultimate destiny of humankind. I see no a priori reason why reason cannot be used to guide us through choices about the ultimate purpose of the Universe. What is feared by 'irrationalists' is that reason shows that the Universe has no purpose and if it does there is no evidence that it matches the purposes of Human kind. The 'Irrationalist' cannot stomach the conclusions of reason on matters of meaning and takes revenge on reason instead of living with the truth of a non teleological Universe. They do not like the message so they shoot the messenger. Often I wondered whether an irrationalist if accused falsely of murder would ignore marshalling of evidence in his defense through rational measures or rely instead of 'faith' in the jury to acquit him. Or suggest in court that truth is ‘in the eye of the beholder ‘so the court has no function! I guess the answer would be that they would straight way get reasoning going as fast as possible.
friki 24-Oct-07, 16:43	persecution Do any atheists feel uncomfortable or unable to express their opinions? For example if someone where to say "hey I'm a satanist" they might shock those around them but there persists an opinion in society that that person has a right to their religious beliefs. However I have experienced down right outrage at my stand point. (Whenever I say I'm an atheist in public my mother-in-law always points out I was raised a catholic as if trying to cover up some kind of shame)
codyj 24-Oct-07, 16:52	Most Atheists don't mind saying that they're an Atheist at all. However, I personally am not an Atheist, as I don't downright deny the presence of God. Atheism really makes no sense at all, as you don't really know what's beyond death, so I don't feel that you have any right to say "I don't believe it," however right or wrong you may be.
ribbleton 28-Oct-07, 01:59	Deleted by ribbleton on 28-Oct-07, 02:16.
ribbleton 28-Oct-07, 02:00	Deleted by ribbleton on 28-Oct-07, 02:01.
ribbleton 28-Oct-07, 02:16	Hitler was an atheist, and look at what he did! Adolf Hitler was emphatically not an atheist. As he said himself: The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. [original italics] For God's will gave men their form, their essence, and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will. Therefore, let every man be active, each in his own denomination if you please, and let every man take it as his first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who in his activity by word or deed steps outside the confines of his religious community and tries to butt into the other. [...] Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord. [original italics] [Adolf Hitler, from "Mein Kampf," translation by Ralph Mannheim.] Hitler certainly appeared at times to be a theist, and claimed to be a Christian: The Führer made it known to those entrusted with the Final Solution that the killings should be done as humanely as possible. This was in line with his conviction that he was observing God's injunction to cleanse the world of vermin. Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy ("I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so" [quoting Hitler]), he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of God. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of God--so long as it was done impersonally, without cruelty. [John Toland (Pulitzer Prize winner), from "Adolf Hitler," pp 507, talking about the Autumn of 1941.] The "I am now as before a Catholic..." quotation from Hitler was recorded in the diary of Gerhard Engel, an SS Adjutant, in October 1941. Hitler was speaking in private, not before a mass audience, and so it is difficult to dismiss the comment as propaganda lies.
ribbleton 28-Oct-07, 09:41	The Holocaust. Could it happen again? There is nothing in ´'the new world order´' to make it unthinkable that the Holocaust could happen again maybe to some other poor wretches. Certainly some act of genocide done in Christianity's name does not of necessity imply Christianity is to blame. As long as we apply the same reasoning to actions of fanatical Representatives of other faiths. But atheists and others have to some extent err on the side of caution and have great worries that politically motivated interpretations of the religious texts to justify great inhumanity have happened far too many times for it to be tolerated without vigorous moral opposition . This I think explains the anxiety and concerns of many who become atheists.
isidre 28-Oct-07, 12:11	The Holocaust. Could it happen again? In fact an other Holocaust becomes ... are you see the film: "Hotel Rwanda"? ... And more close ... in Spain the position of the extreme right party ( PP party) relative to Catalonia and the Basque region could be considered that promote the hate to this singular communities. It's not necessary the religions to do this hell.
jkg20 06-Nov-07, 03:26	Clarification of atheism I think it is worthwhile to distinguish what we might call 'global' atheism (the position that there is no god at all, no matter how you define your terms) and 'local' atheism (the position that a particular kind of god - e.g a Christian one) does not exist. Global atheism is probably what codyj has in mind when he says that atheism really makes no sense at all, and codyj may well be right about that. In fact, I don't believe I've ever come across a global atheist - not even Hume was an atheist of that kind. However, atheism gets its bite - and is often on stronger ground - when it becomes 'local', for example when someone denies that there is a Christian god, or that there is no such thing as Allah. I presume this forum is more to do with local atheism, and specifically with Christian atheism. If so, then the atheist holds most of the cards, since the Christian really has no adequate response to the problem of evil.
rilke 21-Nov-07, 13:14	Fear Does the Atheist has no fear of God? Because he does not have any beliefs. The Man of Faith fears of God. Can you blame an individual who has grown up in the jungle, and never heard of God. Is he condemned by others who claim the faith is everything.
jkg20 21-Nov-07, 13:45	A special place in hell Pagans go to limbo, as long as they are virtuous. Seems a bit unfair, but then that's life (or death).
rilke 29-Jun-08, 23:26	Philosophy Does Philosophy has challenged Religion over the centuries?
el_stevio 04-Jul-08, 01:32	Dawkins "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
rilke 05-Nov-08, 01:25	Atheism vs Christianity An interesting debate took in 2002, between Atheism and Christianity. The latter prevailed this debate.
antinephilehi 08-Nov-08, 03:54	says who? "I believe that many..." When you express your oppinion on how you think religious people think,I dont recognice me. And if I whould dare to explain how you think ,then you wouldnt eccept the description. I dont do good to others becource I want to get my ticket to heaven.I do it becource thats who I am(atleast sometimes  ). If we see a child with a bleeding knee we both feel good about helping the child. To say the believing person whould do it "to get into heaven". Well.. we still have alot to learn about the other person.
gamblingpawn 12-Jan-09, 17:22	Atheism Something I've noticed in the past is how atheists are regarded as these satanic figures. I myself am one, and whenever I'm swept into a conversation about religion and the existence of god, I always find Christians demeaning atheists, for not believing in anything. However, here's something I want to ask Christians: if you believe in God...and only God, doesn't that make you atheist to all other gods? These christians...always attempting to brainwash more people into their twisted system of lies...it just puts me to shame. There has been so much bloodshed in the past over religion...the Holy Wars, the Crusades, you name it. Would that be something that god would want? When all this time, he has been perfected into this caring and loving figure. It's all a lie...and that's all it ever will be.
gamblingpawn 12-Jan-09, 17:22	Atheism Something I've noticed in the past is how atheists are regarded as these satanic figures. I myself am one, and whenever I'm swept into a conversation about religion and the existence of god, I always find Christians demeaning atheists, for not believing in anything. However, here's something I want to ask Christians: if you believe in God...and only God, doesn't that make you atheist to all other gods? These christians...always attempting to brainwash more people into their twisted system of lies...it just puts me to shame. There has been so much bloodshed in the past over religion...the Holy Wars, the Crusades, you name it. Would that be something that god would want? When all this time, he has been perfected into this caring and loving figure. It's all a lie...and that's all it ever will be.
el_stevio 19-Jan-09, 05:39	Bus Campaign Here in Britain there is currently an atheist bus campaign with adverts on the side of buses saying 'There is probably no god, now stop worrying and enjoy your life!'. It was started by somebody who was sick of seeing religious advertising on the side of buses and asked for public donations to fund a counter advert. They raised far more than they expected and the message they have put out is intended to be a bit tongue in cheek. Also as you can tell the word 'probably' sounds more agnostic than atheist but you can read about it here. www.humanism.org.uk It has been such a success that humanist/atheist organisations in countries such as Spain and America hope to do something similar. The Church of England has said it approves because it brings the idea of god into public debate, but obviously some people have complained about it being offensive, perhaps because they find it hard to tolerate that not everybody believes god has to exist. Would you be happy to see such a thing happen where you are?
gamblingpawn 19-Jan-09, 17:22	Bus Campaign It doesn't really matter to me...I have no problem with Christians, as long as they don't impose their beliefs on you...I suppose that motto was right, "now stop worrying and enjoy your life!"
kingofpawns 07-Apr-09, 04:39	The belief in a god or gods is not simply a false belief it is silly. Since modern humans evolved, every culture has imagined 1 to an infinite number of gods. This is nothing more than childhood beliefs in santa clause or the easter bunny. When we look back at our childhoods and consider the things we believed in, we consider them silly, but often fun. If people find joy in believing in one or more gods enjoyable, then that is fine with me. But to consider these beliefs to be true is silly.
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