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From	Message
nightraven 03-Mar-08, 09:28	King's Indian Defense I have started using this defense for black and have won at least 3 games with it. What are everyone's thoughts on this Opening. All moves are for black...Nf6, g6, Bg7, O-O, d6.
taufiq 04-Mar-08, 05:14	The KID I'm also using that defence, from now and then.. But I find it complicated (but very usefull !). The hard point for me is, WHEN to play Nf6 ? Because it depends on how white's reaction is against it.. I certainly want to hear more thoughts about the KID ! Nice topic nightraven ! Geert
nightraven 04-Mar-08, 07:07	Nf6 I usually start with this move most of the time. This sets me up to castle early.
kingdawar 04-Mar-08, 07:27	The right moment to play Nf6. 1. d4 Nf6!   - heinzkat
rogubravo 04-Mar-08, 15:14	the KID The King's Indian is a great first opening against 1. d4; the basic plans and ideas are easy to grasp and it gives black great chances to win (it was my first opening against 1.d4 and I played it for a good four years). At a higher level, the KID will probably appeal mostly to aggressive attacking players. With white, it's certainly the opening I have the most trouble playing against.
neilskye 04-Mar-08, 18:04	KID My standard response to 1.d4 I'm not a d4 player myself (though I am starting to study it a little, with a view to perhaps trying it out on GK in a few months time and then using it OTB) and I feel that 1...Nf6(!) is by far the best way to avoid the theory of Queens Gambit. King's Indian Defence is a theoretical opening too, but it can also be played largely on principles, particularly if, like me, you are an attack oriented player, as rogubravo pointed out. The moves which nightraven suggested can virtually be played as a system (you might need to choose your moment to play ...d6, make sure you prevent white from playing e5). After these moves, 6...e5 is most popular, and perfectly good, but I prefer, and usually play 6...c5. Of course, another option is to play 5...d5 (I believe this is the Grunfeld), I'm currently working on that too atm, but for now the KID is my mainstay defence against 1.d4 and I think it is very good.
nightraven 05-Mar-08, 07:22	KID I agree with rogubravo that it is a tough opening to deal with when playing white. Someone used it against me and I lost the game.
neilskye 07-Mar-08, 02:41	Further to my earlier post... I recently bought Joe Gallagher's book "Play the King's Indian" - this is not his first book on the KID and is aimed at players who either already use the KID or who have a good grasp of opening theory and wish to add the KID to their repetoire. His earlier book "Starting Out: King's Indian Defence" is aimed at a slightly lower level and gives more options at each move, but doesn't go very deep; his new book gives his favourite line against each main variation white can play and goes about 20 or so moves deep. Anyway, to come to the point, in the classical variation where I like to play 6...c5, he plays the more popular 6...e5. Fair enough. The thing that troubles me is that he totally writes off 6...c5 (and 6...Bg4), saying that 6...e5 is the only really testing move (though he qualifies this by saying that the odd-looking 6...Na6 is fine too). One thing I would like to know from the theoreticians (aka heinzkat and mybookrunsdeep) is whether 6...c5 is not actually a perfectly playable line. I have always thought it was, and I have a decent record with it here on GK and otb in the Glasgow League.
e4e6 10-Mar-08, 04:32	In response to nightraven The King's Indian is not hard to deal with as White. I am a former KID player, and will not play it as Black. I don't trust it. There are 2 lines for White where it always seems White's outright better: 1. For your positional player, the Fienchetto Variation is one of those where if Black plays to perfection, he can hold White to his typical miniscule advantage for going first. Black has little to no winning chances in this line. 2. My favorite, and my recommendation to you. Avoid the main line where Black storms down the Kingside, and attacks your King. When I was playing 1.d4, I for a long time played the 4 pawns attack, and had mediocre results (about 50%), but then found a line where thus far (and I say "thus far" in case I do return to 1.d4, this is the line I'd play) I have 6 wins and 1 draw, the 1 draw being to a player 300 rating points above me (this is over the board, by the way), and of the 6 wins, a couple of them are against players 150 above me. It's known as the Gligoric Variation. It runs as follows: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 and now, instead of 7.O-O, 7.Be3! The advantage is that White hasn't committed to Castling. After 7...Nc6? (a very bad but popular move at the amateur level), White plays 8.d5 Ne7 9.Nd2! If Black tries to expand Kingside with an early ...f5, White storms the kingside!!! I have killed many Black kings that way. Otherwise, the main (and better) lines for Black are 7...exd4 (which I'm 1 and 0 against) and 7...Ng4, after which, a line was found maybe 3 years ago that runs 8.Bg5 f6 9.Bc1 Nc6 10.d5 Ne7 11.h3 Nh6 and now, instead of the old 12.g4, White plays 12.h4, and Black has been having numerous problems in that line at the Master level. Try it out!
chess4him 06-Oct-11, 21:58	KID - The Beginning The above recommended line, "1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 and now, instead of 7.O-O, 7.Be3! " fails to include Blacks common response, 7...Ng4 threatening the White Bishop. Anyway, I believe the KID one of the best study openings in GameKnot's thematic tournaments. As a Queen's Pawn Opener, I face the KID often. As a defender, I enjoy adding the KID as a viable defense. So, in any thematic, I learn when I play either White or Black! The KID can begin from the opening line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6. When I see g7-g6, I know where we are headed. Of course,there is still a Benoni lurking in the dark, but often is the KID. I will follow with 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 and now begins how White wants to play. The Samisch with 5.f3, Four Pawns Attack with 5.f4 or an Orthodox with 5.Nf3. Of course, White could have already set up to fianchetto on the King side, but would have not played e2-e4. I am currently playing several games and intend to continue with the Orthodox Variation. Really, I believe it is the Main Line with 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2. This is my current repertoire. I tried the Samisch often and found it difficult to win the race between the King side attack for me and their Queenside attack against my Queen side castled King!
shamash 07-Oct-11, 00:03	7 truly useful KID books recommended: BRONSTEIN ON THE KING'S INDIAN Eddy Gufeld's ART OF THE KING'S INDIAN BEAT THE KID by Jan Markos KASPAROV ON THE KING'S INDIAN TACTICS IN THE KING'S INDIAN by Gennady Nesis MASTERING THE ENDGAME volume 2 by Shereshevsky, and, if you can find it, ISAAC BOLESLAVSKY: SELECTED GAMES
l-d-j 07-Oct-11, 07:07	@chess4him After 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6, you say 'I know where we are headed'. But don't you see the Gruenfeld Defence (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5) sometimes? What do you think of it? I'd be interested to know something about it..
chess4him 07-Oct-11, 09:57	The Crazy Grunfeld! Yes, guilty as charged! I confess a copy of "The Grunfeld Defence" by Khodarkovsky sits nearby! I misspoke, l-d-j, commenting on the Benoni that can be reached by transposition, while overlooking that crazy Grunfeld. When I get the Grunfeld Defence from my Black opponent, I get somewhat excited and even confident of an upcoming win. Most often I get the exchange Variation and end up with a pawn majority in the center. I am sure my exuberance is misplaced and will by checked after my next loss with the Grunfeld! I wish someone would take on the "Grunfeld" thread, found here @ gameknot.com!! Thanks l-d-j , joe

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