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From	Message
thegoodbishop 20-Jan-10, 20:23	Anti Caro-Kann? Having recently decided that I need to spend some more time on learning proper openings I have decided upon the Ruy Lopez. I'm running into the Caro-Kann, 1.) e4, c6. Does anyone have any variations that they can suggest or do I just need to slug my way through my chessmaster data base?
ionadowman 20-Jan-10, 20:58	Slug your way through the CM data base... ... or just the GK database, whence comes to that! But here's a line you might consider playing: the Gunderam Attack. Goes like this: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4 ... So far, this is known as the Panov-Botvinnik Attack - quite a handy line in itself against the Caro-Kann. You can appreciate by the look of it that it has some affinity with Queen's Gambit lines. However, let's continue... [a] 4...Nc6 5.cxd5 Qxd5 6.Nf3 and if 6...Bg4 7.Nc3! Bxf3 8.gxf3! Qxd4 9.Qxd4 Nxd4 10.Nb5! with the idea 10...Nxb5 11.Bxb5+ Kd8 12.Bf4 and Whiite's active pieces more than make up for the material and spacial deficiencies with the pawns [b] 4...Nf6 more usual 5.c5 This inaugurates the Gunderam Attack. The idea is to establish quickly a Q-side majority and centre White's play on it. If Black allows it too much law, he can get speedily crushed. Black has several replies, but as I'm short of time right now, I'll just give an example of what can happen with game I played towards the end of 1982: White: I.A.Dowman Black: Lee Chak Tin Caro Kann. 5 December 1982 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4 Nf6 5.c5 e6?! 6.b4 Be7 7.Nf3 0-0 8.b5 Qc7 9.Be3 Bd7 10.Nc3 b6? 11.c6 Bc8 12.a4 Bb4 13.Qb3 Qd6 14.Nd3!? Ne4 15.Bxe4 dxe4 16.Ne5 a6 17.0-0 Bxc3 18.Qxc3 axb5 19.axb5 Rxa1 20.Rxa1 f6 21.Nc4 Qd8 22.Ra7 e5 23.Bh6! .. Having reached a powerful position, White can switch to tactics 23...Qxd4! 24.Rxg7+! Kh1 25.Qxd4 exd4 26.Nd6! Be6 27.Re7 d3 28.Nxe4 Rd8 29.Nxf6 Bg8 30.Bg7# Although 5...e6 seems quite often to be played against the Gunderam, it might not be the best. In another posting I'll discuss the alternatives, especially 5...e5 and 5...b6. Cheers, Ion
easy19 20-Jan-10, 23:20	Deleted by easy19 on 20-Jan-10, 23:21.
easy19 20-Jan-10, 23:28	As white i am not willing to play a anti caro-kann variation. just because wen i would play black i just play the anti anti caro-kann against it and i never lost a game with that against white. i will look up some off my games.
antagonistknight 21-Jan-10, 06:43	There is another option depending on what kind of positions you are accustomed to, you can go with 2. f4 d5 3. e5. Whatever black plays you can reply Nf3, the one issue I see is that in the GK database white doesn't fair to well with this variation and I am not exactly sure why. For me it seems to be fairly even with white's plan of playing on the kingside while black plays on the queenside. You have to take into account that I like openings/positions like Bird's (1.f4), the Sicilian Grand Prix Attack (1.e4 c5 2. f4 or 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6/e6/d6 3. f4), and the King's Gambit(1.e4 e5 2. f4) when I am playing as white. So my view may be a little skewed, but it can't hurt giving it a try if you like those types of positions or want to pull your opponent out of their favorite variation.
brigadecommander 21-Jan-10, 08:51	Panov Attack i sometimes play the Caro-Kann when my opponent is stronger then me. But i don;t like playing against the Panov variation. If i recall correctly Tal in his 2nd world championship match against Botvinnik battered in vain against the caro-kann and never availed himself of the Panov variation. After the Match Tal finally played it in a game versus Botvinnik and won a great tactical victory. This variation though not a answer to very correct play, is very sharp and must be handled with great care. As for me against the Ruy Lopez i play the Breyer System as black....Janet
gonefromgk 21-Jan-10, 13:00	The Gunderam Attack I remember first learning of the Gunderam Attack back in the 1970s. A few of us at our local club played it with some success. Best of luck no matter what lines you play against the Caro- Kann since it is a solid defense.
fatcat2 21-Jan-10, 13:06	Flank Attack When I used to play king pawn (wow, long dusty years ago) I responded to the Caro-Kann Defence with the Flank Attack: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 (Advance Variation) 3...Bf5 4.g4!? As analysed briefly in Yasser Seirawan's "Winning Chess Openings" it is probably not White's most secure option, but it has the surprise-value - it is not very commonly seen - and therefore I used to employ it often and with a good success rate in rapidplay tournaments.
ionadowman 21-Jan-10, 19:55	thegoodbishop... ... Looking at your grading, I reckon you might find the Gunderam Attack very much to your liking against opponents similarly graded. And probably a bit higher as well. You might want to lok at the GK databases, and you will find the results there none too encouraging. Don't worry overmuch about that. Sometimes it's worth looking at who is doing the winning and losing. At any rate, I'll go through briefly with two likely variations from the diagram position below: [a] 5...b6 and [b] 5...e5. Other lines I'll look at in another posting. Here is the position after 5.c5: b [a]5...b6 - one of the logical attempts to restrain White's Q-side. 6.b4 a5 Also possible is 6...e5 after which comes 7.dxe5 Ne4 (7...Nfd7 8.Qe2; 7...Ng4 8.Bb5+! Bd7 9.c6!) 8.Bb5+ Bd7 9.Qxd5 with a big edge. Instead, 6...e6 7.Bb2 (or 7.Be3) then 8.a3 firmly establishes the majority. 7.b5 bxc5 Again Black might essay 7...e5, but then White plays 8.c6 exd4 9.Bf4, maintaining a bind on Black's Q-side. 8.dxc5 Qc7 A couple of other tries: 8...e5 9.c6 with a bind; or 8...Nbd7 9.c6 and 10.Qd4 9.Be3 Nbd7 Or 9...Ng4 10.c6; or 9...e5 (you always have to reckon on this!) 10.Qa4 Bd7 11.b6! 10.b6 Qe5 No good would be 10...Qb7 11.Bb5+! nor 10...Qc6 11.a4 with Bb5 and c6 to come. 11.Nd2 Nxc5 12.Rc1! And Black can try: [i] 12...e6 13.Ngf3 wins a piece [ii] 12...Nfe4 13.Nxf4 Nxf4 14.Bb5+ Bd7 15.b7 with a huge attack. [iii] 12...Nce4 13.Bb5+ Bd7 14.b7 Rd8 15.Rc8! Bxb5 16.Qb3 d4 17.Bxd4 Nxd2+ 18.Bxe5 Nxb3 19.Rxd8 and wins [iv] 12...Nfd7 13.Bb5 e6 14.Ngf3 Qb2 15.a4 Qb4 16.Ne5 threatens 17.b7 [v] 12...Nb7 13.Ba6! Nd6 Instead 13...Qb8 14.Bb5+ Bd7 15.Qa4 or 13...Rxa6 14.Rxc8+ Kd7 19.Rc7+ 14.Rxc8+ Rxc8 15.Bxc8 Nxc8 16.b7 Na7 17.Ngf3 Qb8 18.Bxa7 Qxa7 19.Qa4+ again with a powerful attack (19...Kd8 20.Ne5; 19...Nd7 20.Qc6). [vi] 12...Ncd7 13.Qb3 Qb8 14.Rc7 Bb7 15.Bb5 (This just has to be good, doesn't it?) 15...e5 16.Bxd7 Nxd7 17.Qb5 Bc8 18.Ne2! ... White threatens 19.Rxc8+ Qxc8 20.b7 etc. That b-pawn on b6 is really something! I accept there are a heck of a lot of tactics in this line, but they serve a strategic end: to force home the b-pawn. As this is a long posting, I'll leave it here, and discuss 5...e5 another time. Cheers, Ion
thegoodbishop 22-Jan-10, 08:34	Gunderam Thanks Ion! I'll get to work on this right away.
ionadowman 24-Jan-10, 03:04	More on the Gunderam Attack... In my last posting I was about to discuss what might happen if Black played 5...e5 against the Gunderam Attack. To recap: the Gunderam Attack begins: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4 Nf3 5.c5!? ... And this posting will look now at 5...e5 The intention of this move seems obvious: to undermine the support of the c5-pawn. 6.Nc3 ... Not an easy move to explain, but if Black now plays 6...e4, 7.b4 and the closed centre doesn't help Black's counterplay. Besides, the pawn advance seems anti-thematic. 6...exd4 7.Qxd4 Be7 An alternative idea is the obvious-looking 7...Nc6, at which White responds 8.Bb5 Bd7 9.Bxc6 with the idea 9...Bxc6 10.b4 or 9...bxc6 10.Nge2. 8.Be3 0-0 9.Rd1 Nc6 10.Qa4 ... At this point, Black is left with a none-too-secure isolated d-pawn, and White has a mobile Q-side majority. White can fancy his chances in this position e.g. 10...Re8 11.Be2 or 10...Be6 11.Nf3 leading to completion of development and forming a plan to set the majority in motion.

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