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From	Message
jkarp 14-Sep-11, 18:13	The,"Four Move Trick" and Game DB I have been paranoid in previous posts about the, "Four Move Trick", but it was for a good reason. This almost happened in a game, during a team match wich is still in progress. However, I had to play d3 prevent this, and I thought that I had outsmarted the opponent by seeing his plan, but I was wrong. Instead, I had to resign one move later because he checked and was going to win two pieces for free, including one of my rooks. This was the worst game that I played on this site and the second worst game that I had ever played before. This happened earlier today. I lost another game, yesterday, in eight moves during a league match wich is still in progress. This happened the same way that the, "Scholars Mate" occurs because he won with his queen and bishop. I now know that these losses were caused by the GK databases. I have noticed that I play worse in more games when I use this feature. Therefore, I do not want and probably will not use this feature again.
jkarp 14-Sep-11, 19:17	These past games, that I am talking about were against delta5ply10 and ardvark2345. I only played one game worse, as mentioned. This was against Pat Riley when he was actually successful in the, "Four Move Trick". In some cases I am playing worse then I did before my coaching game with ubermensch43 because of the Game DB. For example, it suggested that my best move was my knight on the h or a file. It has also recommended that I expose my queen early in the game. In my opinion, this database gives bad advice, so I believe that it should not even exist on this site.
king-nothing 14-Sep-11, 21:32	game game I see you play the Sicilian. Look at these two games and you will see how to defeat the four move trick in two variations. Just remember that as soon as either the queen or bishop come out on move two, it is time to move your knight. Any other game, you can move your knight at your leisure, but when someone tries this dirty underhanded trick, you'll know how to respond
doji 14-Sep-11, 21:49	jkarp My first thought when I read your post is, that the database is based on games that are played by 1600+-rated players. Even when one of them make a mistake or blunder early in the game it is put there. The data base is therefore not suitable to 'copy with your eyes closed', because it has mistakes. One can learn from it by try to understand why a move is good or bad. The chess openings can be a guidance to learn to play certain openings. Jo
damalfi 15-Sep-11, 02:16	Funny games Very interesting, very tactical... but not "definitive" about the "trick".
jkarp 15-Sep-11, 12:03	What does it mean if something is not suitable to, "Copy with your eyes closed"? I have not heard that expression before.
doji 15-Sep-11, 12:50	I mean that you have to examine that the move in the database is a good move or not. And not think that all the moves in the database are, so don't copy the moves from the database without examine them first. The expression is maybe not a proper English one..... - lol
hityerclock 15-Sep-11, 13:16	Gk games database The games database is a tool, and like any tool it can cause injury if not used correctly. If you understand why particular moves are made- the plan behind the move - the game DB will show you how that plan has fared. If you don't understand the opening that you are playing, the game DB is of limed use, and you might lose a finger. Always wear eye and hearing protection when operating power tools.
jkarp 16-Dec-11, 18:26	How to use the Game DB I just figured out the proper way to use this database. I just did not understand before because I thought that it was originally based on the highest rating and percent of wins. In reality, those wins are masters who make unprecedented moves. I now see that it is based on the amount of finished games. I played a couple of games with this database in many finished games, as much as 12,000, and it helped.
pennsylvaniadan 16-Dec-11, 23:05	Database The database might help a beginner in Chess but I think it's best not to use it. The best thing you can do is play a lot of games, make your mistakes, and learn from them. After a while, your brain will become the best "Database" to use and make the game of Chess more satisfying.
shamash 17-Dec-11, 00:20	a grandmaster database can help you stretch your notions of what is possible. . . . . . and therefore flex your imagination and your creativity -- whatever your level of skill. A grandmaster database can be a versatile way of teaching yourself chess and therefore achieving mastery, especially when learning a new opening because it encourages your brain to stretch beyond the move you might ordinarily make or intuitively choose, and to reason out the purpose beyond a grandmaster's choice of a move you had not thought to put in play, whether it is a different piece being deployed, or a more aggressive pawn push, or a harmonizing of pieces so they work together, or a centralization of control by a rook or the Queen, or a way of provoking your opponent into a weakening move, or a different way of achieving safety for the King -- all these and more can be picked up just by looking at the choices of others that form the established tabiya of Openings in a database -- and of course learning the ideas behind them, and choosing to accept or reject them, before choosing a master's move from any database.
damalfi 17-Dec-11, 08:20	True, shamash! Having said that, I don't use extensively databases, and you make me think about why. In the opening, most likable moves are played by a great number of high-rated (over 2000) players. It would be very unusual to have them making the same mistake so many times. They are not mistakes, are "lines"   On the other side, the fact that a move is not played means almost certainly that nothing good can come out of it. Sadly, it is almost always true. I still have a reminescence of "my own way of playing the Lasker line of the Scandinavian, since I think I have a scheme that, if not often played, holds decentely. I know the way to crush it, but it is not an "obvious" move, and most players, following principles, just don't think about. This explains why it is not played a very high level, but for average players it will hold pretty well. A database cannot say "why our move is bad". It's up to us to find the reason, or to defy it and try our own line. Even if it is bad, this will teach us more. It took me years to learn to see opening's move's implications - and I am still far from it. So, when in a serious game, I would use the database (if allowed, and I understand that GK's policies allow it).
jkarp 17-Feb-12, 14:41	Deleted by jkarp on 17-Feb-12, 14:48.
jkarp 17-Feb-12, 14:48	I learned earlier today, from Jack Stockel, that it is better for black to respond with the French Defense (e6) if, a player attempts the, "Four Move Trick". Then, it is a good idea to bring the knight into play. After that, one should respond with d5. I also found out that it is not uncommon for an opponent to attempt the, "Scholars Mate" with 2.Bc4. In the past, I had problems with the proper continuation, after I had played e6.
jkarp 21-Mar-12, 13:49	What happens when you attempt the, "Four Move Trick"? Another opponent attempted the, "Scholars Mate", during a team game, but he did not get away with it. In fact, his attempt, indirectly, costed him the game, this game. That is described in the annotation below. gameknot.com

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