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 Club Morphy vs. Knights of Honor Club Challenge
The theme of this game is the Evan’s Gambit, which was a popular 19th century opening often used by Paul Morphy. See www.youtube.com for a 5 minute video explaining the gambit.
Knights of Honor will play black in the opening line of:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 Bxb4 5.c3 . . .
RULES:
-We will start with a 3 day time limit to suggest moves, have the discussion, if needed, vote and post the move.
- I will serve as the moderator and post the club's move on the actual playing board. I will break a tie vote based upon the discussions made.
- Please make all move suggestions, rationale, discussions and votes on this thread. If you would like more time to discuss the merits of different moves, request additional discussion time. Some moves will go directly to a vote, others will be debated. Time lines are: move suggestions within 1 day of the posting, discussion in the 2nd day of the posting and voting on the third day of the posting. I will make the move around 9:00pm CST of the 3rd day.
- As we go through this, feel free to post ideas on making it a smoother process. Post any questions you may have to this thread as well.
-An actual unrated game will be initiated between johnclark (CM’s founder) and me demonstrating the moves that are decided upon. Refer to this game for analytical purposes. gameknot.com
-There are several KOH members who are also CM members. Those playing for CM have vowed not to view our discussion thread, and I am also asking those playing for KOH not to view CM’s discussion thread for this game.
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Move 5 Board
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Bc5
4. b4 Bxb4
5. c3
Material:
CM (white) -- 0 points total
KOH (black) -- 1 point total
1 pawn - 1 point
Unrated game (for analysis): gameknot.com
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I should say
5... - Ba5.
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- Ba5
i vote this as well.
I don't like how we got stuck in "retreat mode" right off the bat. lol
I vote Ba5
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jbravo58d
29-May-09, 14:34
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Only two choices
Ba5 or Be7. Ba5 is better I think.
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5...Ba5
There are a few replies to c3 and they are 5...Ba5 5...Be7 5...Bc5 5...Bd6. Some are considered better than others. :) 5...Bc5 is really not considered to be any good. Although 5...Bd6 gets in the way of the queen pawn its there for a reason. Its not considered bad as far as I can tell but 5...Ba5 and 5...Be7 are more mainstream.
I would be more inclined to choose 5...Ba5 or 5...Be7
I decided on 5...Ba5 since it seems more active than 5...Be7 :)
However if anyone wants to talk about 5...Bd6 instead of 5...Ba5 I'm open to a discussion on it since we do have till Sunday to make a move. :)
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Move 5 discussion
Obviously, Ba5 is going to win the vote. However, had I encountered this scenario during one of my games, my 5th move would be Bc5. I would have retreated my bishop to c5 so he could have most control of the board's center. I know I have the lowest position on the totem pole as far as ratings are concerned, so could one or more of you explain to me why Ba5 is a good move and Bc5 is not? Just for my own learning process.
Speaking of my relatively low rating, I'm going to ask one of you to break any future tie votes that may occur, perhaps giving each a turn at doing so. Greygan, our 7th player, is on a temporary leave of absence giving rise to the possibility of a tie vote.
On a final note, I'm not too happy being stuck in retreat mode from the onset of the challenge either. However, our club will choose the opening sequence in our next challenge. :)
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Why 5...Bc5 is bad.
Well in gambits white gives away material for some other advantage. In the case of the Evans Gambit he gives away material for a gain in tempo. Basically we lose a tempo because we are forced to move our bishop twice.
5...Bc5 6.d4 exd4 7.0-0 d6 8.cxd4 Bb6 9.Nc3 - This is known as the Morphy Attack.
The problem with playing 5...Bc5 is that it loses a further tempo compared to other options. We move our bishop three times! As in the above Morphy Attack. This doesn't lose the game but we have better options.
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. . .
Thanks for that detailed explanation. Now I understand why Bc5 is not a good move. I am hoping that we can all learn from one another in this challenge.
Club Morphy is planning to spend 3 days making each move. However, we can turn the moves around more quickly if desired, especially at this juncture when only the 7 of us are playing. I am open to your thoughts and suggestions.
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Our 5th move of Ba5 was made. CM will make its next move in 3 days. Send me your email address via private message if you would like a reminder message when it is our turn to address move 6.
CM hosted a "test" comsultation game prior to beginning this challenge. See gameknot.com for an example of how the game is being played out if you wish. This will give you some idea as to why 3 days are recommended for each move made.
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Move 6 Board
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Bc5
4. b4 Bxb4
5. c3 Ba5
6. d4
Material:
CM (white) -- 0 points total
KOH (black) -- 1 point total
1 pawn - 1 point
Unrated game (for analysis): gameknot.com
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6... - exd5
That is what my choice would be to avoid 7. d5, because if that is played by white, we would be force to retreat a little and in my opinion, it doesn't seem good.
Jo
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6 . . . d6
This move protects the e5 pawn releasing the knight to move elsewhere about the board.
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What do you mean....
... by releasing the knight, it can be moved elsewhere, if you play 6... - d6 or not? Or am I missing something?
6... - d6 wouldn't be a bad choice either, it's just that I hate d5 (although there are other moves for black), so, if d6 would be preferrable for others, I can go along with that move too.
Jo
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. . .
Right now, the c6 knight is protecting the pawn at e5. With d6, the knight is free to move to another position on the board as d6 will protect the e5 pawn. Just a thought. I'm not trying to criticise your suggestion . . . I'm just presenting another scenario. :)
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Oh yes
I see, and it is allowed to criticise my suggestion... it gives discussion and that is why I participate on a game like this, so feel free to give other scenario's!
Jo
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6...exd4
I would go with 6...exd4 its a good choice if we want to follow theory. The pawn can't be captured by the queen because its protected by the knight on c6. Whites c3 pawn can't capture the pawn either because its pinned to the king. White following classical principles will want to have his ideal pawn centre. That's two pawns in the centre which is partly the reason he would choose the Evans Gambit. He can't change his mind now because a worse position would be the result so he's not going to take our pawn with the f3 knight. In fact whites next move will be to castle king side. :)
In case your wondering I am following the main line of the Evans Gambit up to move 10. If anyone is against doing so we could discuss alternatives. :)
The move d6 is a book move in the Evans Gambit but I think perhaps capturing the pawn puts up more of a fight for the centre. I would certainly consider d6 if we have a discussion about it and it turns out we have a good plan using that move. Not sure why doji is worried about d5? If your worried about a pawn moving there its nothing to be concerned about. :)
I'd be more concerned with 6...d6 7.dxe5 dxe5 8.Qxd8 Kxd8. We lose the right to castle.
We seem to have two players MIA I hope they are coming to join in the discussion we may end up outnumbered unless Club Morphy are having similar problems. :)
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This post was deleted by tennesseehiker on 04-Jul-09, 16:31.
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kendo-ka
I am worried about d5 after 6... - d6 because it is an invasion in whites area. We would be forced to move our knight and not be able to make the game, but to go into defence and I don't like that. Your line is of course also something to worry about, not to mention it is dangerous!
Nice explanation you give!!
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This post was deleted by tennesseehiker on 04-Jul-09, 16:32.
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tennesseehiker
not happy anymore??? - lol
Jo
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This post was deleted by tennesseehiker on 04-Jul-09, 16:33.
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bigcol1
05-Jun-09, 01:55
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This post was deleted by tennesseehiker on 04-Jul-09, 17:10.
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. . .
Again, I apologize for the confusion caused by my name change. Greygan, a good friend of mine, gave me the idea as his former username was jambrose. While I have used happyhiker101 as my screen name for many years, I feel as though tennesseehiker is more descriptive of me and my passion in life (other than chess). Please accept my apology for not notifying you of the change earlier.
Best, Jim
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Move 6 Vote
Sorry, I forgot to put the vote for move 6 on my calendar and lost track of time.
The current suggestions are:
exd4 -2
d6 - 1
Looks like exd4 wins the vote. I will make our 6th vote now and wait for CM to make their move. I will try to be more attentive next time. :)
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Move 7
Club Morphy will play their move on Thursday or Friday, so we have to wait a little.
tennesseehiker is a week absent, and he asked me to moderate this until he gets back, so that is what I will do. I will post the move when I get one.
Jo
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Move 7. Qb3
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Bc5
4. b4 Bxb4
5. c3 Ba5
6. d4 exd4
7. Qb3
Material:
CM (white) -- 0 points total
KOH (black) -- 1 point total
1 pawn - 1 point
Board for analysis: gameknot.com
Let us discuss the next move! If possible, we make it on Sunday.
Jo
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My vote is Qe7
To protect the pawn on e7 and attack the pawn on e4.
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Agreed - 7...Qe7
Yes...we need to keep that f7-pawn - I think that's what you meant - otherwise, White gets a powerful attack.
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jbravo58d
12-Jun-09, 08:04
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No doubt
Qe7, thats my vote.
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