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From	Message
easy19 10-Dec-09, 23:18	:) I do not see black winning just yet, and the advantage is there but it is not so good that we can end the game any time soon.. 22...cxb5 yes yes the best and logical move.. but as always i use a different view and i have a alternative. Not the best if we speak in material but i think the best tactical move that benefits black later on. My vote 22...Nxb2 with this continuation 23.Qxb2 Bc4 24.Rd1 or something similar . cxb5
brigadecommander 11-Dec-09, 04:42	Friendly Challange to whom it may concern. 22...Nxb2 is ok but i still think 22...cxb5 swiftly leads to victory. So sure am i that Black wins with 22...cxb5 that i would love to take blacks position against any and all takers.It could be a private game or games so we will have the two variations running at the same time Without revealing anything. And we will find out which move leads to a quicker finish. It should be easy to set up the position and send me a challenge. It could be very instructive for all. I see you can talk the talk!!! but can you walk the walk?? Janet
easy19 11-Dec-09, 09:56	BC Seems you are talking the talk here   Prepare to be challenged soon with the current position at the board.. it will be a private game because we should possible play faster then unknown vs team... and i also think both variations can get over 40 moves.   ANd there are also some oportunities for black.. to turn things around..
easy19 11-Dec-09, 09:57	# Player brigadecommander requested to automatically decline challenges unless they are:from players with rating below 2120
thegoodbishop 11-Dec-09, 10:49	Deleted by thegoodbishop on 08-Feb-10, 12:43.
doji 11-Dec-09, 11:04	I uderstand that brigadecommander and easy19 want to continue the game private between them two, they are challenging each other because of their discussion. For this game, keep on suggesting and discuss, it continues like it did before.
brigadecommander 11-Dec-09, 12:43	Easy19 sorry about that. I will change my settings. i just woke up so i will do so now. Thank you...janet
ionadowman 11-Dec-09, 23:55	Interesting... ... my preference was also for 22...cxb5, although wouldn't have gone so far as to say Black had then a winning advantage. An I were in a panel deciding what move to play, I'd probably vote for 22...cxb5, but wouldn't have any problem if the majority opted for 22...Nxb2 instead. Either move it seems to me leaves Black with an edge. Cheers, Ion
brigadecommander 12-Dec-09, 07:12	22.....Nxb2 leads to a win for Black. But it takes much longer and is less convincing. 22....cxb5 however leads to a swift outcome.....janet.
brigadecommander 12-Dec-09, 08:37	ionadowman sir; you say ''i would't go so far as to say Black had a winning advantage'' Easy19 and i are engaged right now in a battle to prove or dis-prove that contention. He is being taught the error of his ways. Would you also like set up the same position and play a unrated or rated game to come to a more definite conclusion?....janet
ionadowman 12-Dec-09, 15:12	Thanks Janet... ... but no thanks. I guess my attitude was kind of 60-40 in favour of the pawn capture, but I had hoped to convey the impression that I wasn't especially dogmatic about the choice. Although I didn't really expect it would happen, I just wanted to avoid getting involved in just such a challenge... If the game does reach a definitive conclusion, it would be interesting to see an annotated version. Cheers, Ion
brigadecommander 12-Dec-09, 15:29	ionadawman. thats fine! this is a chess club. All i wanted was to get to the better move. I have no ax to grind. Easy19 and i will also explore the 22...Nxb2 line to see how many moves longer it would take for black to win.Thus we find the best move. We are all winners if that happens..I will take the White side for that. In any group of Scientists the members are allowed to make assertions. And they must defend there assertions to there peers. It is fundamental that they reach the truth, not if there right or not. I could still be wrong! but i think not. ps...Easy19 can annotate the game as he has the superior skill.
gonefromgk 12-Dec-09, 16:02	22. ... Nxb2 My vote is for 22. ... Nxb2.
doji 13-Dec-09, 01:48	Deleted by doji on 13-Dec-09, 01:49.
doji 13-Dec-09, 01:50	So, what do we have? 22... cxb5 - 2 votes (brigadecommander, ionadowman) 22... Nxb2 - 2 votes (easy19, oldgus) So, the discussion goes on!
easy19 13-Dec-09, 03:06	Nice.. discussion   So will people vote for the logical best move that leads to a victory or the more Zen reversed sequence move that also leads to a victory to say it otherwise.. Expecting a slap in the face and just getting the slap in the face Expecting a slap in the face but getting a kick in da nuts..
brigadecommander 13-Dec-09, 12:10	22.....Nxb2 the second game to explore the variation 22....Nxb2 has begun. I have the white pieces. easy19 has black.
brigadecommander 13-Dec-09, 13:35	22...Nxb2 easy19 lost in the 22.....cxb5 variation and i lost in the 22....Nxb2 variation. ''Cedo Maiori'. I therefor concede that both moves are equally good. I hope easy19 will post the games as they are very instructive...Brigadecommander out.
easy19 13-Dec-09, 13:40	I will wait until the unknown game has proceeded several moves further.. good games Janet.. you have proved to me that your move suggestion leads quicker to a deceive advantage.. And i think i have proved my point why a less logical move sometimes is better then the logical move. This was fun..
brigadecommander 13-Dec-09, 13:51	Doji and Fatcat2 this unknown vs the club is a great idea guys!!! it leads to so many different paths and instructive ideas. It is also a good way to improve ones games.I look forward to when i am the unknown!....experentia docet.
doji 15-Dec-09, 23:42	easy19 Can you agree on 22... cxb5? Of heb ik het mis?
easy19 16-Dec-09, 00:54	both moves are fine and both have there benefits. it is just what you like most...
doji 16-Dec-09, 01:18	So Because easy19 likes both moves, one could say there is a slight option for 22... cxb5, so I will post that move.
doji 16-Dec-09, 04:27	Deleted by doji on 23-Dec-09, 10:52.
dungeonking 16-Dec-09, 16:17	I smell mate or a serious loss of material Hey guys im new at this so go easy on me. Black is in trouble here, facing the loss of a rook. I analysed all the exchanges on e5 and they are not good. Why not move the rook to f8 protecting the f pawn. bob
brigadecommander 17-Dec-09, 07:15	black is not in trouble! white is!!! 23...Rf8 is the right move but not because blacks in trouble.
ionadowman 17-Dec-09, 10:51	It is true... ... that 23.e5 looks spectacular. It beefs up White's genuine pressure on f6, and discovers at the same time an attack on the rook at a8 -an attack that has at once to be dealt with. The thing is, dungeonking, that Black has one move that solves both apparent problems - precisely the move you suggested. That move effectively localises White's attack, leaving it easy to beat back. At Black's last move, the alternative, 22...Nxb2 would equally well have defused White's threats. Why do we say Black was not in trouble, yet speak of White's threats? Those threats have been seen, assessed, and counter-measures worked out. You might have some fun working out what Black might play if White were to respond to 23...Rf8 with 24.exf6. Cheers, Ion.
brigadecommander 17-Dec-09, 16:37	23...b4. also is a great move But better is 23...Rf8. If 24.exf then 24.....Qc5ch with a massive winning advantage.
doji 19-Dec-09, 10:12	I will post 23... Rf8.
thegoodbishop 20-Dec-09, 18:14	Deleted by thegoodbishop on 08-Feb-10, 12:43.
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