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caknight
23-Dec-11, 17:31

Endgames
Here is a very interesting position, it is black to move.
What would you play?
brigadecommander
24-Dec-11, 06:39

Be4
i would play... Be4
shamash
24-Dec-11, 11:43

choices, choices
well I would

N E V E R

want to face brigade commander in an endgame, but. . .
I would deploy my a-pawn to a3, so my next move would be ...a3.

arguably, Black could play brigade commander's ...Be4 first,
and then
probably still play ...a3 next.

brigade commander ( a natural at the endgame) is probably right that her move is the superior choice. . .

But in my play I practice Karpov's principle of RESTRAINT,
and would prefer to first restrain the ability of White's bishop to control a3
so would prefer first to deter White's Bb2 just so long as the Black King has enough time to block the White King's harvesting of the black pawn now at a3 or a2 --
which the Black bishop could defend by a timely ...B-b1

Black could even tie up the White King by moving ...g5 Right now, and
then ...a3 in a couple of moves --
alternately advancing a g-pawn and the a pawn..

(in fact, Black could live with ...Bb1 being the next move, and Then ...a3.)

With best play by White in blockading Black's a-pawn,
it might not even matter what move Black chooses in this position ---
so here is where it helps to know the style of the opponent, and
whether a provoking move is called for so that Black ends up not only with an advantage in material,
but with a real chance to win.
brigadecommander
24-Dec-11, 14:29

after consideration...
i would not want to face shamash in an endgame either!!! his prophylactic motif of 'restrain the
ability of whites bishop to control a3' is brilliant! I just thought that Black should first get his f-
pawn off the black square so as to free her King to march down to g3 via the white squares in
tandem with the g-pawn and a-pawn . But after further consideration i would say a3 is the best
move. This is a Classical Bishops of opposite color ending and i would think it drawn with best
play by White. But as a student i will look forward to what caknight is up too! I have lost some of
these endings in OTB
brigadecommander
24-Dec-11, 16:15

after a3
after a3 i assume white would play Kf2 or g3. Then to put the utmost pressure on white and
render all his moves critical i would play a2!!! and put White on the edge of a precipice. Though i
still think its a draw.
caknight
24-Dec-11, 17:16

Endgames
I don't want to face either one of you so I will play 1...Bh3!

That is what Shirov played against Topalov in Linares 1998.
The British Chess Magazine called it the 'Most Amazing Move' in their April issue.

2.gxh3 Kf5! (not 2...f5 3.Kf2 Kd6 4.Ke3 Kc5)
3.Kf2 Ke4
4.Bxf6 (4.Ke2 f5!) 4...d4!
5.Be7 Kd3!
6.Bc5 Kc4
7.Be7 Kb3
Here Topalov resigned due to 8.Bc5 d3 9.Ke3 Kc2 10.Bb4 a3.

brigadecommander
24-Dec-11, 19:48

all i can say is wow!!
i spent over an hr looking at other possible 3rd moves alternatives(other then Kf2) for white and
nothing works. I
am humbled!!! thank you caknight.
caknight
24-Dec-11, 20:00

Humbled
Moves like these are what keep us mere mortals from reaching the rarefied air that the greats play in. I would have never found this move & I would bet that most chess engines would miss it too.
brigadecommander
24-Dec-11, 20:30

your right!!!
when i first looked at the position i thought...draw!!! It gives me hope in a strange way in that
those moves are there!!!! hidden deep, sometimes illogically. I hope you have more of these!!
and post them!!!
shamash
24-Dec-11, 22:32

But. . .
There are 2 issues here:

In this position,
a) is Black's 1...Bh3 a winning move?

===> Maybe.

b) Is White's 2 gxh3 a losing move?

Yes.

White's losing move is not the 3rd move, it's the next move, 2 gxh3.

Similar endgame positions have come up before, however loudly the BCM hautboy-ed this one.

And I would never presume to conjure up better chessboard magic than former World Champ Veselin Topalov.

Still I say:

As White you NEVER take the offered piece, you never let that f-pawn become an unopposed, passed pawn.

It's a question of yield:
it's all about keeping your opponent from building the value of his deployed assets.

OK now I feel the way I did when in geometry class I was convinced I could prove Euclid's unprovable Parallel Postulate (one can't: that is why it is called a postulate).
And now I am presuming to find a better move than a Super GM. However I dare to claim that his

2 gxh3 is a classic Losing Move.

A better reply would Not be 2 g3 -- then as White you lose control of f3 in a crucial light-squared diagonal (f1-h3)
Best looks like:

2Kh2.

it is what I would play here.
brigadecommander
25-Dec-11, 04:35

and i would then....
play 3...Bg4!! Though I applaud any and all efforts to find a saving move for White and thus
dismantle 'Bh3' i think that it stands the test and wins. However we will get to the bottom of it!!!
either way. I have to say that caknight and Shamash have ignited my fighting spirit which has
been diminished by the deep winter that now surrounds me.(5 degrees last night and
dropping).This is one of the best discussions i have had on Gameknot!!!
shamash
25-Dec-11, 08:59

responding to brigade commander's ...Bg4
well then
after Shirov as Black's 1...Bh3
and Shamash as White's rejoinder 2 Kh2
and then brigade commander as Black's 2...Bg4. . .

I would play White's response as 3 Bb2 -- before Black has another chance to play ...a3

Black with 2 extra pawns in the endgame is clearly ahead in material as well as position and initiative --
but being outplayed is not necessarily being defeated, and I still think that of White's candidate moves,
3 Bb2 offers the best prospects.

So the sequence is
1...Bh3
2 Kh2 Bg4
3 Bb2
brigadecommander
25-Dec-11, 09:52

IF
if there is a way that White can survive then that means that Bh3 is 'not' a great stunning
move!!!! But if in all variations Black wins then it truly is a 'wonderful, sound,winning move'. One
for the records i would say. So i would suggest for Black; 3.....g5.(Kf5 is just as good i think).
caknight
25-Dec-11, 11:15

The Game
The game was V. Topalov - A. Shirov and not Shamash as white.
shamash
25-Dec-11, 13:38

Topalov versus Shirov at Linares: déjà vu all over again
Yes and what's particularly surprising in the '98 Topalov-Shirov game at Linares
is that Shirov won the endgame in a similar fashion -- 2 pawns up -- with a bishop-for-pawn sacrifice
a year earlier, also at Linares: Shirov-Topalov (Linares 1997).

www.chessgames.com
caknight
25-Dec-11, 15:13

Options
I think after if white refuses the bishop with a king move black still wins.
2.Kf2 Kf5
3.Kf3 Bxg2+
4.Kxg2 Ke4!

After 2.Kh2 Bg4
3.Bb2 Kf5!
caknight
28-Jan-12, 19:52

Endgame Zugzwang

White to move & put Black in Zugzwang.



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