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From	Message
johnclark 26-Apr-09, 13:35	Consultation game sign-ups One of our members expressed an interest in CONSULTATION games. A consultation game is where two or more players play one side of the board against the opponent. The opponent is usually equal number of players, but can also be a single player, e.g., Kasparov v world. I think a consultation game where the opposing sides consult with each other on moves would be fun. In keeping with the Romantic Era spirit I propose a board with the first 4 moves of the Evans Gambit, an opening favored by Paul Morphy and quite the vogue in the 1800's- 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4... The game(s) will have a minimal 2 or 3 day time limit so it doesn't drag on. Players will need to consult with the team members via message on the moves. The particulars of how we can do this will be worked out if there is interest. So if you would like to try your hand in a consultation game, let me know. If I get 4 people we will have one board, 2 per side. If I get more we'll figure it out- maybe 3 per side or two boards. This could be a lot of fun. Participant will be expected to consult daily with their partner to make timely moves. I'm in. Who else wants to join? Also, when you sign up, let me know if you are willing to be a captain for your side.
pennsylvaniadan 26-Apr-09, 21:06	Consultation Sign me up---only for the wining team though---lol
johnclark 26-Apr-09, 21:13	Consultation- penndan Great! We now have two, you and me. Come on folks! Join the battle.
antagonistknight 27-Apr-09, 05:03	Deleted by antagonistknight on 27-Apr-09, 05:03.
antagonistknight 27-Apr-09, 05:04	Who is the "Player" that is playing vs the club, if you don't have one yet I volunteer to be the one you go up against. If you already have one then I will sit out and play the next one.
ironbutterfly 27-Apr-09, 11:54	consultation game I've played a number of these before, and they can be great fun - count me in!
happymisanthrope 28-Apr-09, 10:17	Expand it We could make it a club vs. club thing. One person would be the designated mover [preferably the one who submits moves the most sober] while the rest of the club consults on a thread specifically for that game. That way the advice is posted for all members to contribute and learn from, we have a history of advice for the I-told-you-so-ers, and the clubs can discuss the moves in relative privacy from the opposing members.
pennsylvaniadan 28-Apr-09, 14:45	Club vs Club I LIKE IT---I LIKE IT---GOOD IDEA---WE WILL HAVE P. MORPHY ON OUR SIDE IF WE DO IT RIGHT
johnclark 04-May-09, 21:34	Consultation game OK, we are ready to take it for a test spin. I would like to try out out the format before taking on another club. We have a couple of clubs, Knights of Honor and Club Checkmate and Friends who have expressed interest for inter-club consultation games. For the first try, hbird1830 will play against the club. The actual game will be posted on his page and mine at gameknot.com You can go to the page to see the progression of moves and use the analyze program to plan your suggested move. We will play a thematic game against hbird1830 (by the way hbird1830 has yet to lose in 41 games). We will play the King's Gambit Accepted starting at black's 4th move. The reason is twofold, to bypass the issue of which opening to go with and to promote Paul Morphy and 19th century theme. We have found 11 games in which Morphy played this particular line of the King's Gambit Accepted- once as black at the age of 12 and the rest as white. Paul lost only one of those game and it was to Jules de Riviere in 1863 during his second visit to Paris. RULES: -Let's start with a 3 day time limit to suggest moves, have the discussion, if needed, vote and post the move. - I will serve as the moderator and offer suggestions, but vote only to break a tie. I will post the club's move on the actual playing board. - Please make all move suggestions, rationale, discussions and votes on this thread. If you would like more time to discuss the merits of different moves, request additional discussion time. Some moves will go directly to a vote, others will be debated. Time lines are: move suggestions within 1 day of the posting, discussion in the 2nd day of the posting and voting on the third day of the posting. I will make the move at the end of the 3rd day. - As we go through this, feel free to post ideas on making it a smoother process. I'm not worried about hBird1830 having access to our thinking and plans. I've played totally open games before and what they did was to get me out of the mind frame of "hoping my opponent doesn't see my sneaky plan" into looking for "forced moves". And that's a good game. - So here we go! 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4... Here is the link to the actual board for those who want to see the full move progression and use the analyze board: gameknot.com Submit your suggestions and rationale, if appropriate, on this thread.
pennsylvaniadan 05-May-09, 00:10	ok---lets get the ball rolling I see Qe7 or Be7 as the best moves. I like Qe7 better because it gives us more options. He's probaly going to counter with d3 or Nc3 right?
antagonistknight 05-May-09, 06:12	When Making Moves After this post I will refrain from looking in this forum. I should mention I am playing a similar game in the Knights of Honor Club forum, just not as structured with the time/voting. The thing I find interesting in these games is that the general group will almost always go with the highest rated player's suggestion, even if a lower rated player's suggestion is relatively better. So I urge you to ignore the suggester's rating and look at what they suggest and analyse the outcome of that suggestion on the board, because it does not matter how you arrive at the best move if by skill or just luck it matters that you see it. So go with the best move, not the highest player.
ironbutterfly 05-May-09, 11:14	our 4th move Most of the stuff I've read focuses on 4......g4 or .....Bg7, with the predominant opinion seeming to be that ....Bg7 is best. I've only found one game in which Morphy himself reached this position as black (McConnell-Morphy, New Orleans, 1849), and - for whatever it's worth - he played .....Bg7. So for those two reasons, that's my vote here.
tennesseehiker 05-May-09, 12:10	Black's 4th move My vote is g4. I would follow this by h4 and eventually d4 allowing the bishop to exit the home rank with Bxf4 without compromising the integrity of the queenside castle. The pawn at d4 would be protected by both the knight and queen.
johnclark 06-May-09, 19:03	Black's 4th move 4...g4 traditionally leads to white going with a castle and sacrificing his knight for position. But then he could move his knight. It's an interesting proposition for me as I enjoy kingside assaults. However, for some reason, white does well when plays 4...g4. I think 4...Qe7 slows development of Black's pieces and we can get more with developing a piece. 4...Bg7 develops black's side (which Morphy was noted for doing) better than than the other suggested moves. I think in the end, if I knew my opponent's play, I would go with 4..g4. I don't know our opponent's play and would thus opt for development- 4...Bg7.
johnclark 06-May-09, 19:10	Black's 4th move- End of discussion, time to vote If there is no further discussion the suggested moves are as follows. Please cast your vote for only one: 4...Qe7 4...Be7 4...g4
pennsylvaniadan 07-May-09, 02:25	vote Final vote---Lets be bold---Qe7
ironbutterfly 07-May-09, 10:23	Morphy's ......Bg7 I vote for ........Bg7 - not only Morphy's own move, but I think objectively best in the position.
tennesseehiker 07-May-09, 21:26	Deleted by tennesseehiker on 07-May-09, 21:28.
tennesseehiker 07-May-09, 21:30	Move 4 Vote I vote for Be7
johnclark 07-May-09, 22:42	Deleted by johnclark on 08-May-09, 10:13.
ironbutterfly 08-May-09, 04:14	Where does the B go? (the fingerslip variation?) There seems to be some confusion in our postings about the black bishop: 1. On 5/5 penn sees Qe7 or Be7 as the best moves; 2. On 5/5 butterfly advocates g4 and Bg7 as the best moves, with the edge to Morphy's own move of Bg7; 3. On 5/5 hiker argues for g4. 4. On 5/6 john mentions Be7, g4 and Bg7; finally choosing Bg7. 5. On 5/6 john says that the voting is closed and there are three options to vote for: Qe7, Be7 and g4 (What happened to Bg7??). 6. On 5/7 penn votes for Qe7; butterfly for Bg7; hiker for Be7. 7. The results on 5/7 are posted as: Qe7 (1 vote); Be7 (2 votes) and g4 (0 votes) Again, what happened to Bg7?? 8. In the score our fourth move is listed as Be7, but the piece is moved to g7. 9. I think when the confusion is cleared up, we actually by a narrow margin prefer Bg7, as the diagram shows. Whew! Guess we all need to proofread more carefully!
johnclark 08-May-09, 10:28	Results for Club Morphy's 4th move (correction) Results: 4...Qe7 (1 vote) 4...Be7 (1 vote) 4...g4 (0 vote) 4...Bg7 (2 votes, with the coordinator (johnclark) casting the tie breaker) hbird1830 v Club Morphy 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 Bg7 5.d4... _____________________________________ hbird1830 has made his 5th move of 5.d4 as shown in the above diagram. Suggestions and discussion for Club Morphy's 5th move is now open.
ironbutterfly 08-May-09, 11:35	Our 5th move d6, h6 and Nc6 are probably all playable here. [ N.B.!: One of the things we're going to have to be careful with in our game is transpositions - I think Mr. Bird knows this opening far better than any of us does.] My vote is for d6. Korchnoi used it against d4, and he is the most brilliant chess player I've ever seen in person (haven't seen Karpov or Kasparov). Fischer also called it (on move 3) "the refutation of the King's Gambit," for whatever that's worth.......
pennsylvaniadan 08-May-09, 14:20	5 move Nh6---I don't like our position one bit
tennesseehiker 08-May-09, 18:08	Move 5 I opt for d6 - This move would allow foster development by permitting one of the bishops to leave the first or home rank. I, too, am aprehensive about our position in this game.
johnclark 08-May-09, 19:28	Club Morhy's move 5 Believe it or not, I've been thinking about this move for most of the afternoon. Evaluating our current position, I see 1) we are up a pawn, but 2) our soft spots are the f7 square and the f file when white castles and 3)white controls the center!! Taking that pawn gave us material, but screwed the hell out of our position. And that's the gambit we accepted- terms of the match and... it makes for a good game. It's in white's best interest to castle and have his rook influence the f file. When that happens our f4 pawn will have no support once our g5 pawn is compromised. White's Rook on f1 and Bishop on c1 are both targeting the f4 pawn and the f4 square will be his along with the entire file! But my big concern at this point is the center board. At sometime or other, white will want to push his e pawn to e5 and really cause us trouble with his control of the f file by his Rook and his e5 pawn controlling the important f6 and d6 squares. (And you have to admit that for the cost of a pawn, that's a pretty good looking position for white  ) ) Because of my concern with center control (his 2 pawns, knight and bishop!!), I think d6 is the best move to defend against white's aims. I say this because I play the Sicilian Dragon Defense and the d6 pawn is essential to arresting white's attempts at center control. That is one point I have learned from the SD. As happyhiker101 pointed out, d6 also allows a line out for our light squared bishop. So to address white's control of the center squares and to create a path for our light squared bishop, I suggest 5...d6. Further discussion is encouraged.
pennsylvaniadan 08-May-09, 22:25	move 5 ok--d6--Nh6 can wait
philmitchell 09-May-09, 09:58	I VOTE FOR D6 TRIED AND TESTED WILL ALLOW FASTER DEVELOPMENT WHEN NEEDED
cyna 09-May-09, 14:07	Move 5...Nh6 I agree a faster development is good, but I don't like the idea of sacrificing the castle. So, in the interest of our possibly gaining material, I say 5...Nh6 (for 6.Bxf7 Nxf7), allowing for a kingside castle.
johnclark 10-May-09, 16:58	Black's 5th move- End of discussion, time to vote hbird v Club Morphy gameknot.com 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5 4. Bc4 Bg7 5. d4 * If there is no further discussion, please vote for one of the following suggested moves: 5...d6 5...Nh6
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