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From	Message
gcah2006 15-Sep-11, 16:11	Qd5 1. ... Ba6 2. Rxc6 Be2 3. Rd6 - I'm not sure we get much for that pawn we lost. 1. ... Qb6 2. Qxb6 axb6 3. Rxc6 - We're a pawn down and our pieces are really inactive, plus b6 is weak. For those reasons, I don't feel I can choose either of them. As for Qd5, Qe3... I can see how this is stronger than Qc3. As well as providing support to d4, it leaves open the avenue for Rc5 (which can be played with tempo) and Ne5 also becomes a serious threat. The Queen and bishop are aligned too for what is worth. As for Qd7 though, it seems really passive. I'm not decided between Qd5 and Qd7 yet, but I'm leaning closer to d5.
damalfi 15-Sep-11, 16:46	Yes, after Qd5, Qe3, the black queen has not the escape square e4 anymore after Rc5. But we get tempo to play Bg7, and after Rc5, our queen can go THEN to d7 (Ne5, sadly we have to exchange our dsb, too bad), that now is impossible. So, let's say that Qd5 help us to get the Q away from the b column so we have tempo to get the B to b7, defended by the queen in d7.
stalhandske 16-Sep-11, 04:25	@ l-d-j I agree with the major point (active/attack is the best defense, as my late uncle always stressed, who taught me chess). Qc3 may not be very good for white after 14......Qd5, because then 15.... Rd8.....
stalhandske 16-Sep-11, 05:01	this or that My response to l-d-j was somewhat post festum because of the important contributions by gcah2006 and damalfi. The discussion has been very interesting, but in actual fact I think the difference in "value" between the major proposed moves is probably infinitesimal. Since I am currently rated above 2000 (which might well not be for long), I won't vote.
easy19 16-Sep-11, 06:50	10 hours left before i count the votes.
gcah2006 16-Sep-11, 08:42	Just confirming that... I'll vote.... Qd5.
dmaestro 17-Sep-11, 00:26	I still like Qd5
easy19 18-Sep-11, 23:38	Club it is your move game < is here gameknot.com < Annotation is here 5. d4 cxd4 6. exd4 d5 7. cxd5 Nxd5 8. Qb3 Nxc3 9. Bc4 Nd5 10. Bxd5 e6 11. Bxc6+ bxc6 12. O-O Bg7 13. Bf4 O-O 14. Rfc1 Qd5 15. Qe3
stalhandske 19-Sep-11, 00:51	First initiative.... I think 15....Bb7 is a straightforward continuation freeing the rooks occupying the diagonal...
damalfi 19-Sep-11, 07:36	Exactly The only change has been that now we don't have e4 as an "escape square" for our queen against Rc5. So, we will have to move it to d7. Ok. From there, the knight can fork it with the c6 pawn after Ne5. Why are we forced to take BxN? Because otherwise the queen must move but without quitting c6. And the only square I can see for this is e8 - an awful square. At the same point we will get with a different move order, I think, so this is the probable outcome. 15... Bg7, 16. Rc5, Qd7, 17. Ne5, BxN. Now, afer BxB, we have the threat Qh6, with unavoidable mate the next. Can we prevent it? It seems that f6 would be our only attempt. This will weak our e6 point, but apparently it can hold Re1 with Re8.
bigpeta 20-Sep-11, 03:14	i vote f6 i prefer f6 as it prevents the N from advancing Bb7 is a possible alternative
stalhandske 20-Sep-11, 04:37	about f6 Bigpeta is right, of course, that 15...f6 would serve an important mission in preventing the knight from advancing. However, that mission need not (necessarily) be fulfilled right now. Looking at the current position, I think that both f6 and Bb7 will be required in due time anyway, and that it may therefore be more a matter of hair-splitting which move is done now.
easy19 21-Sep-11, 23:07	6 hours remaining. so far 3 votes for f6
damalfi 22-Sep-11, 14:43	f6 If Bb7 and Ne5, black has c5, threatening mate in g2. But white wouldn't play Ne5... so my vote is definitely for f6.
easy19 26-Sep-11, 23:04	8 hours remaining. moving wen i get back from work..
easy19 27-Sep-11, 14:57	Club it is your move And i made a mistake with the timing so we only have 20 hours for this one... game < is here 10. Bxd5 e6 11. Bxc6+ bxc6 12. O-O Bg7 13. Bf4 O-O 14. Rfc1 Qd5 15. Qe3 f6 16. h4
gcah2006 27-Sep-11, 15:57	I'll start by talking about 16. h4. From what I can see, it appears to be a defensive move intended to stop us playing g5. Bb7 seems like the most obvious move. At the minute, our a-rook is useless because of the inability to use the b8 square. Bd7 would lose us our queen.
damalfi 27-Sep-11, 17:16	Bd7 I agree, but I think h4 by white wants to be more than defensive. Anyway, Bb7 seems by far the best. Next moves include Re8 and Rc8, to strenghten our pawns. If the knight moves, we will have c5, that bring us a tempo. We should keep the lines closed, by now. White's responses can include Rc5, that we will counter with Qd7.
gcah2006 27-Sep-11, 17:26	I hope you meant Bb7, because 16... Bd7 Rc5 is a loss.
damalfi 27-Sep-11, 19:31	Yes, sorry, it's too late... Bb7, of course. Yes, sorry, it's too late... Bb7, of course.
easy19 28-Sep-11, 09:38	2 hours remaining ..........
dmaestro 28-Sep-11, 21:25	Bb7 Is best
damalfi 29-Sep-11, 00:52	Bb7 This is the best I can see...
easy19 29-Sep-11, 13:34	Club it is your move game < is here Annotation updated soon. I am totally overloaded with real life stuff currently so i have a hard time keeping up this week.. 10. Bxd5 e6 11. Bxc6+ bxc6 12. O-O Bg7 13. Bf4 O-O 14. Rfc1 Qd5 15. Qe3 f6 16. h4 Bb7 17. Rc5
bigpeta 29-Sep-11, 13:37	Qd7 is pretty much forced here
damalfi 29-Sep-11, 15:13	No doubt. Qd7... it's the only one.
ramblinwreck 30-Sep-11, 11:50	17...Qd7 I agree with Qd7. I think Qd8 was at least worth discussing: while it breaks the rook link, it offers the black queen access to the open a5-d8 diagonal. However, as I see it this diagonal could be effectively closed up by White's response of 18.b4.
bigpeta 30-Sep-11, 13:36	Qd8 Qd8 gives away a pawn with Qxe6+
ramblinwreck 01-Oct-11, 11:23	regarding Qd8 Ah, yes, thanks Pete. Not only does it throw away a pawn, but as it puts us in check, we probably have to waste a move getting out of check (as we can't escape check and do anything really interesting in the same move [I don't consider advancing the rook to the 7th rank noteworthy]), and so we give White another move to hurt us.
easy19 01-Oct-11, 22:27	6 hours remaining. so move will be made wen i get back from my 25 mile walk
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