CHESS PUZZLE, FEN 1k6/8/3K4/8/6B1/8/8/7Q w - -

Added by:kingdawar
Added on:02-Jun-08
Description:
Difficulty:
chess puzzle 1k6/8/3K4/8/6B1/8/8/7Q w - -
Attempts:1517
Solved:515 (33%)
White to move, mate in 2
Comments: (25) » LastGo to last comment
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fezzik
06-Apr-12, 00:34

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33% solve rate and only 2 stars?
This was a good puzzle, and it took me a couple minutes to figure it out. Very nice!
vetton
06-Apr-12, 02:56

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vetton
El rompecabezas es erróneo
sidthekid
06-Apr-12, 02:57

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I agree fezzik,
It is only a two mover but I was there for five minutes I reckon. I suppose with two movers people can make their three mistakes and get a hint then get the solution quickly enough. Then they put the fact that they didn´t get it in their three moves down to bad luck or the fact they are no good rather than the puzzle being good. It is easy with two movers afterwards to see the solution and think to yourself "that was obvious,why didn´t I see it" rather than "Good puzzle, had me".
sidthekid
06-Apr-12, 03:03

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Vetton, ¿por que?
Creo ques esta bien
marvin2
06-Apr-12, 05:24

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Vetton
Si fuese erróneo el motor que ayuda a generar los puzles no te permitiría introducirlo como mate en 2.

Además, fíjate que este puzle es una composición de 1906. Seguro que si estuviera mal no habría podido ser publicado.
marvin2
06-Apr-12, 05:36

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fezzik
There may be an explanation for a low solve rating and the 2 stars.

Most people that solved the puzzle found it easy and marked it as a 2 stars one, but that doesn't mean that all the people that tried were able to solve it.

Anyway, it's a good one. I like the way he play with the idea that the bishop can be exposed to be captured with no change in the final result.
phonybenoni
06-Apr-12, 06:19

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I gave this one three stars myself. The key move is not at all obvious, and takes some imagination to find.
jimu57
06-Apr-12, 06:31

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not a 1 or 2 star
Took me 6 minutes. It is not obvious expect maybe to long time veterans of chess. Doesnt follow along with normal logic. A good puzzle to make you think outside of the box. I think a 3 star should be awarded.
marvin2
06-Apr-12, 06:50

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phonybenoni
As someone said once, in a 2 moves mate the first move isn't usually a check  

So, keeping that idea in mind my personal process to solve the puzzle was:
The king: Moving it I can't cover all the black king's moves to mate in the next move. Even more, the only logical square to place it cuts the diagonal for the queen. So that's not the way.

The Queen: Whatever you move the queen, either rows, diagonal or columns, you can't mate in a 2nd move, because the black king has more than one square to move and keep safe from the mate and you queen doesn't have any other piece to support it.

The bishop: OK, it seems that the bishop is the answer and it's supposed you have to move it to a square where it can support the queen for checkmating. But if I put it in the main diagonal I block the queen's path to the black king and in other diagonal it does nothing to mate with the queen in the next move. So, where do I have to put it? It was the when I realised that the only square is c8, if black king takes it you can checkmate in a8 and it it's not taken you can checkmate with the queen in b7.

Of course that was my way but, as you can see, it wasn't a matter of imagination but a simple process of eliminating the alternatives. It may sound a bit weird but maybe it would cost me much more to find out the answer if the puzzle had had more pieces.


Sorry for the long post ...
eugen1943
06-Apr-12, 08:38

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minds
I almost didn't bother doing this one because the answer was clear but then I thought I wouldn't see what others thought. What is easy for one is hard for another and vice versa.
elfuego51
06-Apr-12, 10:56

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Got it in five seconds
On of the tougher easy ones though.
phonybenoni
06-Apr-12, 10:57

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marvin2
We have different systems, or rather, I don't have one. In a position with so few pieces, I just start looking at moves until I see something that "clicks". Took me maybe 15 seconds, but I got lucky in seeing the right answer that quickly. Your systematic method might be slower, but it's also surer. And, as far as I know, you don't get extra credit for solving quickly.

By the way, that "no check on the first move" rule generally applies to positions composed by professional problem makers. If the position comes from an actual game, anything goes.
rich_sposato
06-Apr-12, 10:58

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The difficulty rating moved up to 2.5 stars, and the Solved percentage moved up to 37%.

Given that most people failed to solve this one, this certainly doesn't belong in the "easy" category.

As I said before, puzzles should get ELO ratings for difficulty instead of just stars.
marvin2
06-Apr-12, 11:33

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Someone said ...
Once that there should be a star rating for the beauty. Maybe it would be a good idea the ELO rating for difficulty and let the stars for the beauty of puzzles.

The problem is that those changes imply to much work.
sidthekid
06-Apr-12, 11:43

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Well said rich_sposato
Perhaps a user rated star system is not the fairest. We know that some people analyse a puzzle before solving (I am not complaining, that is what it´s there for) but 2 movers with few pieces suffer especially on this because as Sherlock says "eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" and when you only have a limited amount of possibilities it is therefore easier to find the solution and may affect how difficult you rate a puzzle. Also we see that 37% solved this with this less than three incorrect tries (and a large number of the 37% must have analysed first) yet the 63% who failed either gave it no rating or a low rating? Perhaps a system where the amount of time taken to solve a puzzle would be more accurate rating of difficulty? If a person fails to finish the puzzle then a default time should be given. Making a wrong move could add 30 seconds to your solve time (obviously if you analyse you wouldn´t get any penalty for a wrong move) and asking for a hint could add a minute. Then we could as measure accurately against each other! And the difficulty rating would be fact orientated.
marvin2
06-Apr-12, 11:53

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Improving puzzle stuff
I've sent a message to the Gameknot team suggesting the change of rating to ELO and an addition of star rating for beauty.

I don't know if they will do anything about it (who know?).
mihaimarinescu
06-Apr-12, 13:11

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Mr Kingdawar provides some quite remarkable puzzles here. It took quite some time for me to solve it. Thank you very much for these great exercises.
afghanknight
06-Apr-12, 13:28

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Liked it; gave it 3 Stars
I like the logic Marvin2 shows. In puzzles like these with very few pieces, I also look at where black can move, as if it were black's move first, not white, and try to see the mate from there.
theawesumlekha
06-Apr-12, 15:30

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liked it , beautiful checkmate
joyyan
06-Apr-12, 15:39

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I know this theme and I love it 
blackmonkey
06-Apr-12, 16:54

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finally!
phonybenoni, THANK YOU. thank you for your long post. i wish there were more like it. playing chess, the hardest thing for me is to organizing and sticking to a system of thought. i think what you described is exactly how imagination works, but slowed down. you imagined possible scenarios with a specific goal in mind until you found one that worked.

and you're right (and it doesn't sound weird), the process you described would cost more time and energy if there were more pieces but maybe not much more. in regards to me, if there's a full board with pieces all over the place, i'll find the major pieces first starting with the queen and do the same thing you did. i think that's why pawn mate puzzles are rare and good to find because it's the least likely piece on a full board to finish off a king. though, it does happen!

your post was exactly what i needed.
tonymac
06-Apr-12, 21:36

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why did the king not take the bishop?
nickpalmer
06-Apr-12, 22:14

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tonymac, the reason the king doesn't take the bishop is...
...Qa8#. So it could take it but it's mate next turn anyway.
vetton
07-Apr-12, 12:22

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Ahora esta bien
blackmonkey
07-Apr-12, 12:35

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@ id=tonymac
after 1. Bc8 the dark king has two choices, and the Mighty Gameknot Puzzle Computing Machine (MGPCM or Magpiecom) selects one randomly. Both choices have the same result for Black: CHECKMATE.
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