CHESS PUZZLE, FEN 8/8/6k1/7R/5K2/5Q2/8/8 w - -

Added by:kingdawar
Added on:06-Jun-08
Description:
Difficulty:
chess puzzle 8/8/6k1/7R/5K2/5Q2/8/8 w - -
Attempts:2042
Solved:555 (27%)
White to move, mate in 2
Comments: (19) » LastGo to last comment
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chessikins
16-Apr-12, 01:29

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Up da back..
Nice diagonal cutoff motif...lotsa messing about with the rook and king seems reasonable ...good use of available forces...minimal rules..
macheide
16-Apr-12, 07:37

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A good and instructive puzzle.
duendesai
16-Apr-12, 08:10

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NICE ONE
andrew_chaz
16-Apr-12, 10:31

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now thats what an easy puzzle..
should be. makes you think and excecute accordinigly. solved within a minute, however I enjoyed the puzzle very much. Thanks kingdawar
nikirandom
16-Apr-12, 12:19

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Took me..
forever to get the first move, then the second was clear.
thor99
16-Apr-12, 12:33

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huh?
he gets the rook with that move. could not understand why he dose not take the rook its free!
dazzzzler
16-Apr-12, 12:45

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i also don't understand why the rook was not captured. Can anyone explain?
thor99
16-Apr-12, 12:48

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yes please!!!
could someone please explain?!
nikirandom
16-Apr-12, 12:52

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Rook not captured...
After move 1, Black has a choice of two moves, but either of them still allow mate for White on the next turn.

If you 'solve' the puzzle more than once, you'll see that sometimes Black does play KxR, but it's still mate either way.
colinq93
16-Apr-12, 13:28

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If the rook is taken
To elaborate on sicknero's comment, Qh7# is mate. Look at the all moves graph under the options tab if you want to understand why the computer made a strange move you don't understand.
vogs
16-Apr-12, 13:37

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Rook
i am sorry, regardless of that the logic move was to capture the rook.
dan1407
16-Apr-12, 13:52

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Puzzle magic at its best
simple and straight forward but oh so beautiful!
nikirandom
16-Apr-12, 13:56

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Vogs...
KxR is far from logical, instead it's a very human response.

Whether or not Black captures White's Rook, the game is lost and it's mate next turn...

We had a similar thread not long ago when (I forget the exact set up) I couldn't understand why the game engine didn't choose to capture a Bishop, even if it did make no difference at all to the outcome. It just seemed to me at the time that taking the Bishop is what I'd have done, even though the game was still lost.

When faced with a selection of losing moves, the GK engine chooses randomly I think ... it's just human nature, I believe, to think that capturing a piece is the best move even if it makes no difference at all to the eventual outcome.




vogs
16-Apr-12, 14:02

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nero
Very interesting concept, perhaps it has something to do with human nature indeed, with its unwillingness to go down without a fight, even when facing the inevitable doom.  
nikirandom
16-Apr-12, 14:06

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Vogs,
Yes I agree. Or at least for some people if not all.

Perhaps along with the urge to go down fighting, there's also an urge to hurt ... maybe a spite thing?

Would make an interesting study I think. I'll post my thesis here when I've finished it lol : )
emilianobaldo
16-Apr-12, 15:47

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Very nice
A really nice puzzle
fezzik
16-Apr-12, 18:59

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Only 30%???
This is basic blitz tactics. I'm surprised it's so difficult for so many players.
blackmonkey
17-Apr-12, 10:33

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to fezzik, pass along.
with all due respect, you're a 2248 and that's amazing, but do you really expect more than 30% of chess players to think like you? if it was that easy to be rated that high, then yes, i'd be surprised too!

I think of it this way: The average rating of people who use this site is roughly between 1300 and 1500. An average solve percentage for easy puzzles is somewhere around 70-75%. I think if this puzzle was put as the "Hard" puzzle yesterday, the solve percentage wouldn't have surprised you. More players under the average GK rating of ~1400 will try the "Easy" puzzle, but not the "Hard." In turn, more players with above average GK ratings will likely attempt the "Hard," instead of the "Easy." The below average players are rated so because they still have about 900-1000 points to go before this kind of puzzle also appears to them as a basic blitz tactic and so the solve percentage of a relatively harder than "Easy" puzzle stays low.

I think the people who failed to solve this puzzle hopefully learned to change their mindset about finding the king useless as an attacker (or active defender). It takes some time to develop the chess brain to think about multiple concepts and rules of chess at once while visualizing a checkmate. In this puzzle, most beginners and even intermediate players will automatically be looking to put the King against the wall somehow, thinking it's very easy with a Queen and Rook advantage. It would only take a few more moves, and less effort to simply move the Queen and Rook around until checkmate. It's a very different idea simply to consider using the King as the wall, thinking that it provides three squares as 'illegal territory.' With only two moves, a lot of players are forced to radically change their ideas of efficiency with the pieces.

This is an endgame situation, where the King becomes the most useful. This concept of using the King to attack and defend like any other piece becomes basic and comfortable typically after the opening and middle games become basic and comfortable. As everyone probably knows, this comes after a lot of games! I mean, the sheer magnitude of possible openings and then being able to make it through the countless middlegame tactics, unblundered, is a Herculian effort. THEN, if your King is still alive while most of your pieces are dead will you begin to think about using it. Obviously, some players are bolder and braver than others.

So, that's why a 30% solve percentage with this puzzle, under the "Easy" section, seems understandable  
thor99
17-Apr-12, 11:34

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king
the king is a very effective piece in the end game. in the end game the king is also a fairly powerful piece as well especially when the queens and rooks have been traded off
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