Chess Puzzle #4639

CHESS PUZZLE, FEN 8/8/8/8/k1K5/8/1b6/5Q2 w - -

Added by:	kingdawar
Added on:	06-Jun-08
Description:
Difficulty:	chess puzzle 8/8/8/8/k1K5/8/1b6/5Q2 w - -
Attempts:	1635
Solved:	394 (24%)


White to move, mate in 2

Comments: (38) » Last

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chessikins
20-Apr-12, 00:18

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Compact..

A nice easygoing puzzle..a few minutes to work out the exact square required..nothing deep but fun..good practice..

fezzik
20-Apr-12, 05:05

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Much more difficult than it appears!

23% solve rate. This took me several minutes to work out. I liked it a lot, but it was NOT easy.

woutstra
20-Apr-12, 05:57

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^indeed took me several minutes aswell... that first move wasn't as obvious as most easy puzzles are

lolacool
20-Apr-12, 06:32

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^^ I found this incredibly easy compared to some other puzzles I've seen on here...

eugen1943
20-Apr-12, 07:15

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nice

puzzles like this one improve your visualization.

macheide
20-Apr-12, 07:30

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Beautiful

I like these simplified positions a lot. It is incredible how subtle can them be.

stbou
20-Apr-12, 08:04

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fezzik, 2200 rating and did not find it easy?

1- white king is in the best position possible, surely the move will be made by white queen

2- need to go to a case from wich you can reach a7 and a2

a7 if black king move up or down, and also if black bishop keep protecting a3

a2 in all other case

3-only one case offer this, f2 and puzzle is solved.

solving a problem may be done by extremely rapid overview of all moves possible, beiing 2200 you must be strong with this method.

but nothing will beat logical analysis, wich took me less than a minut, even if you are almost infinitly better than me at chess.

blackmonkey
20-Apr-12, 09:36

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stbou, you are a GENIUS!

what is the logic you used in reaching the conclusion in your #2? i thought there were many scenarios to go through before understanding this. that is what made it hard for me. perhaps you got lucky in seeing first the scenario i saw last?

stbou
20-Apr-12, 09:48

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no that wasn't luck

logic by elimination:

why a7? a8 is to far. black king moving to e5 and no mate with Qa8. a6 is to near of black king.

then a7,

why a2? same logic, more easy to see because that a1, even if not to far, could easily be protected by black bishop

rostyk_ua
20-Apr-12, 10:26

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agree this is easy

this one was easy. 60 seconds, not more

blackmonkey
20-Apr-12, 11:18

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chess efficiency?

it seems like you have to think about where the queen's second and final move will be before thinking about her first move (is a queen necessarily a her?), instead of what i do - the opposite. does this method work for a lot of these simplified, two-move puzzles?

stbou
20-Apr-12, 11:34

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chess efficiency

the only way to calculate the first move is to ask ourselve which is the position that gives queen the power to mate. the power to mate is often calculate with possibles final move.

is this method always works? yes

is this method always the best? surely not, especially for 3 moves and more.

stbou
20-Apr-12, 11:40

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blackmonkey, look at puzzle #4568

similar logic is used there.

try it with logic, no trial and errors.

i also commented my way to solve it in its discussion

marcelbis
20-Apr-12, 11:51

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It is as simple as one star. It is logical, you need a2 and a7, so move Q to f2. It took me 10 seconds.

vergiliu
20-Apr-12, 12:14

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Less than a minute? Ten seconds? What brilliant minds are here on gameknot.Give me a break!

marvin2
20-Apr-12, 12:15

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Agree with fezzik

Maybe today's not my best day but the possibilities the bishop gives to the position makes you think a bit more.

Anyone can solve puzzles the best way they think but a so low solved rate for an easy puzzle makes you think for a while ...

blackmonkey
20-Apr-12, 12:40

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THE RULES!

i think the main two rules to follow in this puzzle and in #4568 are 1.) find at least two places the Queen can end on the enemy King's rank or file without being too close to be taken and not too far away for a squeeze escape between the attacking King and Queen. 2.) make sure attacking Queen's first move won't provide multiple blocking opportunities for Bishop.

stbou
20-Apr-12, 12:46

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you're right

trial and error is computer's way, wich isnt logic, but just memory.
puzzle = calculating. tanks have a good day

marcelbis
20-Apr-12, 13:26

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Sometimes it goes slow, sometimes it goes fast vergiliu. It cannot always go slow!

kingdawar
20-Apr-12, 14:09

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Acing these problems may be a great confidence booster, but it also invites to look out for more complicated settings. There is a lot of material already waiting in the complete puzzle section available on GameKnot. And this section is only the tip of the iceberg when compared to the world of problem chess.

blackmonkey
20-Apr-12, 14:49

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kingdawar....huh? more complicated settings? look out for?

kingdawar
20-Apr-12, 14:51

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To be on the look-out for

blackmonkey
20-Apr-12, 14:53

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more complicated settings?

kingdawar
20-Apr-12, 14:55

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Apparently, this position is considered too easy to understand. There are positions which are much harder to get your head around.

fezzik
20-Apr-12, 15:05

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I'm a fish...

I am well aware that I'm a fish. I take a long time to solve some puzzles or positions. I lose all the time in blitz games. (I have about a 60% score in blitz games on another site.)

I found this to be more difficult than some 4 star puzzles. I did solve it tho. I guess I'm not as logical as Stbou.

Then again, after more than 1100 tries, it still has only a 24% solve rate. Perhaps I wasn't alone in finding it more difficult than it first appeared to be.

But I'm a fish.

marcelbis
20-Apr-12, 15:23

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More logic... Someone who found this more difficult than 4 stars and loses all the time in blitz, must have a computer who plays for him at 2240...

sidthekid
20-Apr-12, 17:04

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Bit b****y in here

Why is it so b****y on the easy puzzle page?
If your 1600+ and come here and say its too easy you get slagged off as this is the easy puzzle page and if you say its hard you get slagged off as you should find it easy! But an 1800 accusing a 2200 of using a computer to play their games is bit ott?

fezzik
20-Apr-12, 17:20

Comment deleted on 24-Apr-12, 20:14

stbou
20-Apr-12, 17:20

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hey!

2200 rating is almost grandmaster. my first question was: how can you reach 2200 level if you take several minuts to solve an easy puzzle or let say an average puzzle. my true rating should be 1700, if i took seiously my games. and when i play against 2000 + i get destroy instanly. i know the opening theory has a big impact, and the final theory too. but to be 2200 you are oblige to get extremly good tactical skills, those skill should made this problem solved within a minut, as i've done it! no?

blackmonkey
20-Apr-12, 17:22

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nobody's callling you a fish, fezzik.

lasbyd
20-Apr-12, 19:07

Comment deleted on 20-Apr-12, 20:21

fezzik
20-Apr-12, 19:08

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Fish...

I called myself a fish.

Regarding playing strength: 2200 is close to master strength, not GM strength. And between Master and GM, the gods have placed Fide Master (~2300 otb) and International Master(~2400 otb).

I can solve most puzzles very quickly. When I pointed out that this one took me a couple of minutes, I did not expect to be attacked as a cheater or as someone who is grotesquely over-rated.

I may well be overrated, but that wasn't the point of my comment. My point is that ~24% solved this. It was much more difficult than first appearances or 2 stars would suggest.

I also dispute that a single "logical" method would guarantee faster solving times, at least not the one mentioned earlier.

fezzik
20-Apr-12, 19:18

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Giving the lie to Stbou's method

Here's a very similar position to the position shown that is also mate in two, but is solved in a completely different manner.

fen=8/8/8/8/k1K5/b7/8/4Q3 w - - 0 0

fezzik
20-Apr-12, 19:19

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Trying again....

Here's the position:

blackmonkey
20-Apr-12, 19:30

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lasbyd, which other ways are there to checkmate in two? i bet i can prove them wrong

blackmonkey
20-Apr-12, 20:11

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fezzik, i haven't tried to solve that one yet, but i will and thank you, i'm glad to have another minimal puzzle using the all the same pieces. you're right, stbou's and blackmonkey's logic wouldn't work in this puzzle because there IS a similar situation but with a huge difference. s and b's logic applies to a position where there isn't already a piece blocking one of the two "backrank" mate squares. in this case, there will obviously need to be a different path of thinking. going to solve it now.

...less than ten seconds later...

it's much easier because i spotted Qe8 almost right away that gives black only one move between his two pieces. the other two puzzles added the difficulty of leaving a few outs on a check. hence, a deeper logic needed to be defined.

i hope that makes sense

marvin2
21-Apr-12, 02:25

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I feel sad ...

I thought puzzle forums were for learning by comments on the solved puzzle.

It's a pity to see how it can turn to something like that.

I know all of you will say that anybody can comments whatever they want. Of course, but still it's a pity to waste a good opportunity to exchange comments and knowledge about chess.

+36 comments and only a few about the puzzle itself.

blackmonkey
21-Apr-12, 18:44

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fezzik, check out pz #60934, think you'd like it!

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