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Is this a one or two move mate |
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wodstock 01-Nov-11, 04:57 » Report abuse |
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Note the orientation of the board. |
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phonybenoni 01-Nov-11, 05:11 » Report abuse |
![]() Puzzles where Black wina are always presented from Black's point of view. So the square in the bottom left is h8, not a1, and the White pawns are moving "down" the board. Note the letter guides along the edges of the board. I find it confusing too, but many prefer this set-up. |
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![]() Only excuse for me is that I was disoriented! |
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howru 01-Nov-11, 07:07 » Report abuse |
![]() It's like learning to drive a manual car when you've driven automatic all your life: don't be so occupied by shifting that you forget to steer! |
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tdwhoka 01-Nov-11, 08:00 » Report abuse |
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howru 01-Nov-11, 08:30 » Report abuse |
@tdwhoka |
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kpnone 01-Nov-11, 08:55 » Report abuse |
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eelke1 01-Nov-11, 09:55 » Report abuse |
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terminaterthing 01-Nov-11, 16:53 |
Comment deleted on 07-Nov-11, 19:39.
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difficulty level |
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sonuvatsyayan 01-Nov-11, 21:18 » Report abuse |
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the move |
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takes more than two to mate |
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![]() there are no pawns on the 'a file' |
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fezzik 01-Nov-11, 23:37 » Report abuse |
Puzzle ConventionsIf this was an actual game position, then the colors should be preserved. But if this was a constructed puzzle with a conventional mate (not self-mate or some other stylized variant), then white to move and win. |
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ehtamis 02-Nov-11, 00:11 » Report abuse |
about moving |
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kpnone 02-Nov-11, 06:32 » Report abuse |
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kpnone 02-Nov-11, 10:05 » Report abuse |
![]() Thats my point. There are some "purists" that seem to think a puzzle should only be created with White Moving to create a checkmate....somehow having black to move (and the board flipped to show the perspective of black) is "against the rules" or "confusing". I call that stupid. The artist, as you state the creator of the puzzle, should have the freedom to present the puzzle as black or white. @fezzik seems to think all puzzles should be "White to move and mate". I have no problem with traditions, but I have a problem with traditions that have no basis in logical reasoning. There is no logical reason why all puzzle should be "White to move". Period. |
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ClarificationIf we assume that the software encodes the paradigm that opposing pawns travel towards you, i.e. down the screen, then your argument is tenable. HOWEVER, given that (a) possible pawn moves were not shown, and (b) the two pawns aligned on h7 and g7 are more usually found shielding the king in defence having not moved, and (c) the arrangement of white king and pawns in the puzzle is entirely hypothetical and not a typical endgame trick as it is EXTREMELY unlikely to occur in a real chess game, then the apparent confusion is understandable. Thus the 50% who were unable to solve the puzzle are the 50% who applied my logic and should not be given a 'high brow' attitude... |
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![]() I apologize, i didn't see fezzik's comment. i agree with you completely. if one only made puzzles with white to move than theoretically he/she would be excluding 1/2 of the possible positions (in the trillions) that were available to them. |
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kpnone 02-Nov-11, 14:57 » Report abuse |
![]() The pawns ARE showing their possible moves. The problem is that the h7 pawn is blocked (by the white king) and the g7 pawn is pinned by the black queen. Regardless of what you see typical or not, the fact is the white pawns always move towards the 8th row and the black towards the 1st row. |
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kpnone 02-Nov-11, 15:05 » Report abuse |
![]() About half of the daily puzzles on this site have some person claiming they can solve the puzzle better when they can't. Rather than tooting their own horn, people should study the board/game to make themselves better...and appreciate the artistic approach of puzzles (both easy and difficult). |
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phonybenoni 02-Nov-11, 16:19 » Report abuse |
![]() Remember, a computer has checked these positions for basic soundness. If the solver thinks there's a mate in one, they should take that as a clue that they are under a misapprehension. By the way, if the position were actually oriented with White at the bottom but Black still to move, it would be a ridiculous situation that would never occur in a game. White's last move would have to have been the blunder Kb1-a1 (possibly capturing a knight on that square), instead of winning by taking the queen on c3. |
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howru 02-Nov-11, 18:37 » Report abuse |
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terminaterthing 07-Nov-11, 19:38 » Report abuse |
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![]() And this is a more common endgame tactic than you might think. Only a couple of months ago, I reached a Q v 3P ending; my opponent's pawns were advanced and connected. I'd just queened, hence the seemingly excessive material imbalance. I used a similar trick to win the game. A couple of years ago, when I was ignorant of this general trick (specifically, pinning the pawn onto the king so it can't move), I threw away a win against someone 250 points higher (getting "only" a draw). So it is a trick worth knowing. |
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