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CHESS PUZZLE #5034

Added by:joshshadowfax
Added on:05-Jul-08
Description:Can you get it in two?
Difficulty:
online chess puzzle #5034
Attempts:1438
Solved:397 (27%)
White to move, mate in 2
Comments: (61) » LastGo to last comment
Pages: 12
From Comment
kingdawar
10-May-11, 02:22

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Author
W.E. Candy, 1911
mihaimarinescu
18-Sep-12, 00:42

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I almost wanted to give up and ask for hint, until I clicked on the King and finally observed that he can castle.
Nice one !
cjit
18-Sep-12, 01:49

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Dumb Puzzle
possible only in theory; who would know that castling is still possible in this endgame?
jamesprincex
18-Sep-12, 01:51

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Needs a title hint e.g. 'Who's the king of the castle?'
Otherwise it's a hard puzzle as it is not likely in a 'game' situation that the king would not have castled until the final moves. I too solved this one by 'accident' by inadvertently clicking on the white king...
123cro
18-Sep-12, 02:37

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Isn't fair
A good solution provided you are aware of the course of the game, but otherwise it is hardly can be suggested to be a real situation in such a position. Still it's surely interesting from point of tricky joke.
mihaimarinescu
18-Sep-12, 02:54

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Well, it should be figured from the position of the pieces. Of course, few would think that in the endgame neither king nor rook have moved. It is difficult to pay attention to this detail.
jamesprincex
18-Sep-12, 07:27

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The position of the pieces in the endgame does not reveal their movement 'history'...
This is of course a hypothetical position and is extremely unlikely to occur during the course of an actual game. It is more plausible that the pieces could have moved into this endgame position in which case the option to castle would not be available... This does not though mean that this is an inelegant chess puzzle...
yadasampati
18-Sep-12, 09:06

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@cjit and other critics
The whole point of this nice puzzle is the castling. We tend to think in predefined patterns, and that is why we miss certain possibilities. And it is very well possible that castling is still an option in the endgame. It might not happen much, but it is certainly not impossible and for a puzzle it is a perfect setup. Nice one!

And i think that whoever complains about it, missed it too ...
puzzler77
18-Sep-12, 09:09

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Interesting
The Black King has been passed through with the Rook. The White King is not allowed to pass through check when castling.
thor99
18-Sep-12, 10:42

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dang i did nit think the king could still castle! totally took me off guard
puzzler77
18-Sep-12, 11:23

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Similar situation...
puzzle #74748
rawbee
18-Sep-12, 11:28

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yes
kicorse
18-Sep-12, 11:59

Comment deleted on 18-Sep-12, 12:02.
yadasampati
18-Sep-12, 12:46

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Deus Ex Machina
The nice thing about this puzzle is exactly the fact that practically no one considers the possibility of castling (including me). A solution in 2 moves therefore, seems totally impossible. And after a while you start doubting yourself "Why can't i solve it? It is supposed to be an easy puzzle ... ". Ha ha, i really like this one, because it is more than an ordinary puzzle, it is a deception!
macheide
18-Sep-12, 13:34

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A nice puzzle,  
p4az7j
18-Sep-12, 14:20

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puzzle 3054
I finally gave up. But I don't feel too badly. I set it up on Deep Rybka 4 960 x64, and It's been thinking for 45 minutes and hasn't found the solution.
yadasampati
18-Sep-12, 14:56

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@p4az7j
The program probably cannot find the solution, because when you setup a position, the castling possibility is not automatically there ...
jdorp
18-Sep-12, 15:08

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LOL
At the beginning I felt a bit upset, cause I didn't´t find "the" solution, but then, I ended up with a LOL. And yes, we should have tried castling !!!
Oh, chess...
mcmlxxxi
18-Sep-12, 16:09

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I agree...dumb puzzle.
Without Gameknot's feature which shows the possible moves, one would not ever expect to castle this late in the game. Furthermore, the feature of an online puzzle is the only way to see this puzzle without the notation of how this position was achieved (and often, puzzles do not contain an achievable position), especially since this puzzle could never be solved unless you know that 1) castling has occurred already, or 2) it has not. For that reason, this is a dumb puzzle.
yadasampati
18-Sep-12, 16:38

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@mcmlxxxi
I do not agree. A castle is just one of the possible moves in chess, and as you say no one EXPECTS it in an endgame. And that is exactly what gives this puzzle its juice! The simple solution is hidden well. Without being personal, i really like to see all this embarrassment from people who failed to solve it. As i said before, it is more than a puzzle, it is a deception.
mghost1000
18-Sep-12, 17:03

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relax
a puzzle that is deceptive and makes you laugh at yourself. easy to enjoy.
kingdawar
18-Sep-12, 17:10

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it seems to be getting a bit crowded inside the box
This problem forces some to think outside their boxes, and after all it can't be that much worse outside than inside. To react negatively to this unpleasant surprise is the natural reaction suggested to us by our intuition. The part where appreciation and enjoyment comes in just takes a little bit of extra conscious effort, an effort of which we all should be capable...
dracoargentum
18-Sep-12, 17:11

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It is a tricky puzzle. There have been puzzles where capturing en passant was the key. I almost missed the possibility of castling. I wanted to get the White King into a position opposite the Black King, but it took too many moves until i finally realized that castling was possible. Very nice puzzle.
mcmlxxxi
18-Sep-12, 17:24

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@yadasampati
I take back my previous comment. Since the ONLY way to solve this is by castling, it make it the only single solution. When I initially posted, I made a poor assumption. My thought was that if this was set up in person, someone would have to instruct you on the position. But on second thought, that is not the case. You are correct. If there were more than one solution, it would be dumb. I take back what I said, lol.  
macheide
18-Sep-12, 17:37

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To castle is a CHESS MOVE. It's true that to have an uncastled king (and with the right to castle) in such a position is very improbable, BUT not impossible!
pat007
18-Sep-12, 20:34

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what about in 3 moves?
Try to find it in 3 moves without castling. I feel it s more interesting.
fezzik
18-Sep-12, 20:37

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1 star...
I really hate endgame mating puzzles where the solvers are supposed to believe that neither K nor R ever moved. Unfortunately, there seems to be a cottage industry creating these inane puzzles.



stephplay
19-Sep-12, 00:27

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We assume too much
and so we miss the basics. Nice one I'd say.
With 27% solved at this time, this must be the lowest EASY puzzle solved percentage...
puzzler77
19-Sep-12, 05:37

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3 moves!
see puzzle #74852 as suggested by pat007
cjit
19-Sep-12, 10:28

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@puzzler77
Correct! this is a more convincing and already known puzzle. You'll find it on many chess sites. But the one here, in two, is better marked as a wild variant of this one. Nothing wrong with M2, but this is unnatural, fallacious, and therefore non-chess.
phonybenoni
19-Sep-12, 22:49

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Perhaps you will find this mate in two easier:



I assure you that 1.0-0-0+ is not the answer.



cjit
19-Sep-12, 23:51

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LOL!
This is another absurd situation. Another extreme. IMHO chess is a game of balance, of material, of position, of initiative, of psychology. Nerds and jerks don't play chess. Fischer apparently was a nerd, so was Tal, and even Kasparov - they found crazy solutions often. But look at their internal composure!! Kasparov's famous 22 move mating combination (Game of the century) shows a solid architectonic quality of his thought process. All opponent moves were forced, such was his ART.

AND THAT GAME DOESN'T ALLOW SUCH THINGS TO HAPPEN (AS SHOWN ABOVE).

By the same logic, again, it's non-chess (whether theoretically possible or not). If you can jump from a fence, you can also jump from a sky-scrapper. Would you?
yadasampati
20-Sep-12, 08:20

Comment deleted on 20-Sep-12, 08:21.
yadasampati
20-Sep-12, 08:21

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@phonybenoni
Well, maybe 1. 0-0-0+ is not THE answer, but it surely leads to mate in 2:

1. ... Kc3 2. e6++
1. ... Ke2 2. c5++
kingdawar
20-Sep-12, 08:40

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phony
QxP mates too?
yadasampati
20-Sep-12, 09:03

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How to create a puzzle with castling or en-passant possibility?
It seems impossible to create a new GK puzzle with with castling or en-passant possibility. I wanted to create a puzzle where the first move is a pawn taking en-passant ... Does someone have a suggestion?

Castling and taking en-passant are both legal chess moves, and i do not see why a puzzle that makes use of them should be qualified as "non-chess".
puzzler77
20-Sep-12, 10:03

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phonybenoni
see puzzle #74961
yadasampati
20-Sep-12, 10:15

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@phonybenoni
puzzle #74961 has the same position as the board in your previous post, but castling is not possible here. I see that you created the board using FEN-notation, but how to make a puzzle with this possibility?
puzzler77
20-Sep-12, 10:15

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yadasampati
see puzzle #20488 for an en-passant solution!
yadasampati
20-Sep-12, 10:24

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@puzzler77
Thank you, i love pawn mates, especially when taking en-passant. But i am actually interested in creating a puzzle in which the very FIRST move is an en-passant move or a castle. It seems to be impossible, so i wonder how puzzle #5034 was created.
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