Brunetti takes the initiative on move #4!

Message:
That's one thing which Silman teaches in his books, is how computers can't understand abstract concepts such as 'The initiative.' white always has the first move and hence initiates the direction of the game, chessmaster 8000 allowed black to start intitiating the flow of the position at move #4!

tulkos

6/20/2002
15:24:26

you can comment all you like brunetti,

Message:
But I am afraid my personal annotations wouldn't be very good,and the computer only says "out of opening book"

1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3

tulkos

6/20/2002
15:35:29

and since i can't tell the computer what you say,

Message:
you can tell everybody watching this gamewhats going on.(that way i could understand it to) ;)

brunetti

6/20/2002
15:50:30

I thought you used databases and books

Message:
(at least you told something about that).

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Nd4 5.Be2 Nxf3 6.Bxf3 Bc5 7.d3 d6

tulkos

6/21/2002
11:50:46

I am,

Message:
I use everything on chessmaster.

tulkos

6/21/2002
11:52:21

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3

pamela024

6/21/2002
17:36:13

Brunetti,

Message:
do you want advice from the rest of us, aka, "the bunch"? I think 7. ...c6 would have been stronger than d6 (it allows you better control of the center). I also think 8. Be3 was not the best move--it does not do much to exploit the d6 error and results in an exchange of B's. Why not 8. Na4? That results in an exchange of a B for a N, material advantage for white (Black can move the B to b4, d4 or b6, followed by c3 for white--here I would play Bb6 against stronger players and Bb4 against weaker ones, hoping for the Bd2 error). If I am right about this (and I have been wrong before--as you will see in "the bunch" thread--you may have a decent chance against this engine. Good luck!

brunetti

6/21/2002
18:00:05

My move

Message:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Nd4 5.Be2 Nxf3 6.Bxf3 Bc5 7.d3 d6 8.Be3 0-0

Pamel024:
7...c6 doesn't nothing for my developement, while 7...d6 opens the road for light squared Bishop; the control of the center with ...c6 is not important, because there's no way White could "exploit" the center now; anyway, I retain the option to play ...c6 later, if it's needed. Note that I can't contest White's control of d5 at the moment, and preparing and doing the thrust ...d5 simply allows White to activate his rather passive light squared Bishop.
8.Be3 is a good move, also played by Alekhine in this position, and ...d6 is not exploitable beacuse it simply is not an error.
8.Na4 Bb6 (for example; even 8...0-0 is playable) 9.Nxb6 axb6 there isn't any material advantage for White; moreover, Black has got rid of his bad Bishop and has an open file to play on (and there's already a Rook on a8).
About moving b6/b4 according to opponent's strenght, I don't agree: one should play the board, not the person - trying to make the best move and not hoping for an error; BTW, I wouldn't call 9.Bd2 (after 8.Na4 Bb4+) an error; it leads to an even game. After 9.c3 Ba5 10.b4 Bb6 White's advantage, if one, is very slight.
This is only my humble opinion :)

Alex

tulkos

6/21/2002
18:12:29

-

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0

tulkos

6/21/2002
18:26:04

brunnetti,

Message:
What is a good place to learn the Muzio Gambit? Thanks for your help---I think you help more people around here then anybody else.

pamela024

6/21/2002
21:14:57

I looked it over and

Message:
I'm still comfortable with my analysis. 8. Be3 is not bad, but not as strong as the alternative. But perhaps the computer knows best. 7. ...d6 I still don't like--tulkos, what does your program recommend for Black after 7. d3? 8. ...0-0 is not bad but you may end up working around a very strong center for White leaving you fewer chances on the margins as d4 seems the obvious response. What do you think of 8. Bxe3 (it seems compelling to me)? It results in doubled pawns and weakened pawn structure.

atrifix

6/21/2002
22:01:36

8... Bxe3

Message:
looks wrong in principle as it gives White an open f-file and greater control of the center, which should more than compensate him for the doubled pawns. IMO 8... 0-0 is fine but slightly less flexible than 8... Be6.

Atrifix

tulkos

6/22/2002
06:44:19

the computer suggested 7....0-0.

Message:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

zhou

6/22/2002
07:18:59

Brunetti

Message:
You call black's black bishop a bad bishop, why is that?

tulkos

6/22/2002
07:33:28

a bishop is bad when it is on the same color

Message:
square as your central pawns.A Bishop is good when it is on the same color square as your opponents pawns.However,a good Bishop is not nessesarily better then a bad Bishop,If the bad Bishop is out of your pawn structure and is active.

pamela024

6/22/2002
10:58:53

7. ...0-0

Message:
seems reasonable, tulkos, if a little premature for my taste. I see no reason not to play c6 first. It is a tossup I would say and the program is probably written to favor castling, a slight weakness that unfortunately can rarely be exploited.

tulkos

6/26/2002
09:05:19

where is brunetti?

Message:
has he not been able to get to a computer?

brunetti

6/26/2002
11:47:05

I live inside a computer!

Message:
Forgot it was my turn. 9...Be6

Alex

tulkos

6/26/2002
12:21:12

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0 Be6
10.d4

brunetti

6/26/2002
12:31:54

Bb6

Message:
�

tulkos

6/26/2002
15:08:27

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0 Be6
10.d4 Bb6
11.h3

brunetti

6/26/2002
16:33:03

11...exd4

Message:
if 12.Bxd4 then Nd7

tulkos

6/26/2002
16:56:25

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0 Be6
10.d4 Bb6
11.h3 exd4
12.Bxd4 Nd7
13.Bxb6

paulvalle

6/26/2002
17:12:57

KG

Message:
Why did you chicken out with 2.Nf3 ? What happend to your beloved King's Gambit?

taoistlunatic

6/26/2002
17:31:32

Brunetti is black!!! pay attention.

Message:
!

tulkos

6/26/2002
18:24:57

The computer chose a random opening,

Message:
probably from a list of top openings.

paulvalle

6/26/2002
21:08:15

ops!

Message:
sorry

brobishkin

6/26/2002
21:30:52

Interesting game...

Message:
I played through a few moves and I am at a loss for the reason chessmaster played (5.Be2?!)... I feel that this chessmaster computer needs more work on coming up with a suitable plan... But it should have worked more towards center dominance on the 4th move I think with d4 instead of Bb5... And if you wanted to play the Lopez, move the Bishop on the third move...

It's an interesting game though... Keep on pushing wood you two...

Bro...

pamela024

6/26/2002
21:34:46

Equal game at this point,

Message:
I would even give Brunetti a tiny advantage (White's weak e pawn). Good job!

pamela024

6/26/2002
21:44:47

Yo Bro,

Message:
Be2 is an accepted Rubinstein variation. But it is fascinating that the program chose this instead of the Berlin. Is this random or based on a database?

tulkos

6/28/2002
10:53:22

it is

Message:
brunetti's turn!

brunetti

6/28/2002
11:55:15

Sorry

Message:
...axb6

tulkos

6/28/2002
13:11:30

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0 Be6
10.d4 Bb6
11.h3 exd4
12.Bxd4 Nd7
13.Bxb6 axb6
14.e5

brunetti

6/28/2002
14:20:30

14...Nxe5

Message:
If 15.Bxb7 then ...Ra7

tulkos

7/01/2002
05:00:42

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0 Be6
10.d4 Bb6
11.h3 exd4
12.Bxd4 Nd7
13.Bxb6 axb6
14.e5 Nxe5
15.Bxb7 Ra7
16.Be4

brunetti

7/01/2002
05:41:18

16...Qf6

Message:
I'm sorry I've to play a new move, but I don't like 16...f5 :)

Alex

tulkos

7/01/2002
07:47:14

what do you mean,new move?

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0 Be6
10.d4 Bb6
11.h3 exd4
12.Bxd4 Nd7
13.Bxb6 axb6
14.e5 Nxe5
15.Bxb7 Ra7
16.Be4 Qf6
17.Re1

tulkos

7/04/2002
08:20:25

hello out there----

Message:
where is brunetti?

tulkos

7/06/2002
12:45:03

hello out there----

Message:

Message:
where is brunetti?

brunetti

7/06/2002
12:58:48

Here!

Message:
17...Qh4

persianelephant

7/07/2002
13:40:35

Message:
Persianelephant+fritz7 vs. tulkos+CM8000?
;-)

tulkos

7/08/2002
05:52:11

is this a challenge?

Message:
if so,it is excepted.

persianelephant

7/08/2002
08:53:11

Message:
1. e4!

:)

sr_ajedrez

7/08/2002
09:45:08

did Fritz

Message:
come up whith that move or did u help it a little bit
;o). Fischer says thats a winning line :O).

regardz

tulkos

7/08/2002
10:39:51

persianelephant,

Message:
how about we start the game in a new link so it doesn't mess up the game with brunetti.
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0 Be6
10.d4 Bb6
11.h3 exd4
12.Bxd4 Nd7
13.Bxb6 axb6
14.e5 Nxe5
15.Bxb7 Ra7
16.Be4 Qf6
17.Re1 Qh4
18.a4

persianelephant

7/08/2002
11:07:06

sr_ajedrez

Message:
Me and my friend, fritz, plan to play as partners in the game against CM8000 and his henchmen tulkos.

My poor fritz has not an opening tree, so I will lend a helping hand and play moves like 1.e4 when fritz cannot.

tulkos

7/12/2002
05:39:49

brunetti?

Message:
-

tulkos

7/15/2002
17:38:01

allo?

Message:
ees meester bruneeti steel playing ther game?

tulkos

7/24/2002
12:51:06

BRUNETTI!

Message:
Are you still playing the game or not?I expect an answer in at least a week or I will consider the game to be forfeited in my favor!

brunetti

7/24/2002
14:21:14

Forgot

Message:
as usual :) I try to be superfast from now on.

18.a4 Bd7

tulkos

7/25/2002
13:30:36

-

Message:
Qd2

brunetti

7/25/2002
17:49:59

Re8

Message:
�

atrifix

7/25/2002
18:05:11

Perhaps

Message:
brunetti will comment on his unusual maneuver Qd8-f6-h4.

brunetti

7/25/2002
20:11:21

Sure!

Message:
After 16.Be4 I didn't like the already played ...f5 (Alekhine-Van den Bosch, 1936), too much weaking in my opinion, nor the tempting ...c6, followed by ...d5, because if weakens my central dark squares. My Knight and Bishop are well placed, the Queen's Rook hasn't good moves, and the routine ...Re8 has no real motivation: so I chose to develop the Queen to f6, where it is safe and applies pressure on the f-file and on the a1-h8 diagonal, while allow the King's Rook to move wherever it's needed. I would have played it on h4, from where it put pressure to the h3 pawn and dominates the fifth rank, but White can play 18.f4, after which my Queen is better placed on the long diagonal, for example: 16...Qf6 17.f4 Nc4 18.Nb5 Ra5 19.Nxc7 Nxb2 20.Qd2 Nc4 21.Qd3 Ra3 with pressure on e3, d4, a1 and a nice edge. But after 16...Qh4 the same line doesn't work because of 20.Qxd6 and if 20...Rd8 then 21.Qxb6 Nc4 22.Qb4 winning. In the first line, if 20.Qxd6 etc. then White can't play 22.Qb4 for 22...Qd4+ winning. So I chose the "safer" 16...Qf6.

After 17.Re1 the f4 thrust is not possible (for ...Qxf4); so, having the same problem of the previous move to choose a good continuation, since the situation didn't suggest me a good place for the King's Rook I opted for the second Queen move, following my original idea.

I hope this can help to understand the ideas behind that strange manouvre :)

Alex

tulkos

8/07/2002
16:30:11

b4

Message:

mazi

8/07/2002
18:48:13

Good comment !

Message:
I can understand the game of brunetti,good planing ideas and comment!

brunetti

8/07/2002
19:53:14

My move: ...Kf8

Message:
Fast comment: to avoid Bd5 with check after a possible future f7-f5.

Thank you mazi!

Alex

tulkos

8/08/2002
12:16:56

hee hee,

Message:
thats the move chessmaster played against itself!
8-)

f4

cairo

8/20/2002
11:28:37

Whatever

Message:
happend to this game??

Cairo

tulkos

8/20/2002
11:50:29

I won,

Message:
brunetti ran out of time.8) just joking,but brunetti should make a move soon.

atrifix

8/20/2002
18:02:42

brunetti played

Message:
19... Kf8.

tulkos

8/21/2002
12:08:59

so?

Message:
I played f4.

triangulator

9/15/2002
16:06:17

I got a question,

Message:
Brunetti, what is your uscf, fide or elo rating?

brunetti

9/15/2002
19:17:23

21...Ng6

Message:
1905 national rating. I made a FIDE rating tranche of 2051 in 1999, but after that tournament stopped to play and it's expired. USCF is for US players only :)

Alex

dozer

9/17/2002
01:06:31

game

Message:
Hello tulkos, what has ChessMaster in answer to brunetti's brilliant move??

triangulator

9/17/2002
08:20:53

My club's cm8000 says

Message:
its opponent is too good and white needs to quit

tulkos

9/17/2002
15:54:48

Oh dear-already??

Message:
Rf1

brunetti

9/19/2002
04:41:12

...f5

Message:
What brilliant move? My Knight was attacked and I moved it away :)

Alex

tulkos

9/19/2002
13:28:12

Bd5

Message:
this is fun.

lloyd

9/23/2002
23:49:19

CM6000

Message:
HEY TULKOS MY CM6000 IS BETTER THAN YOUR CM8000. LETS HAVE A GAME

brunetti

9/24/2002
00:55:01

My move

Message:
is ...c6 and if Bb3 then ...d5.

Alex

victord

9/24/2002
09:10:02

Well...

Message:
My program [Chessmaster 9000] can beat your program.
Maybe.
When [if] I figure out how to use it.

triangulator

9/24/2002
10:47:04

is 9000 out?

Message:
i didnt even know they were working on 9000..?

victord

9/24/2002
11:19:02

I don't know...

Message:
but I have it .. a gift from a friend.

tulkos

9/25/2002
14:49:54

lloyd,

Message:
as before,start the game in another link,and I will play you.do you want white or black?

tulkos

9/25/2002
15:34:58

It was getting lost.

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0 Be6
10.d4 Bb6
11.h3 exd4
12.Bxd4 Nd7
13.Bxb6 axb6
14.e5 Nxe5
15.Bxb7 Ra7
16.Be4 Qf6
17.Re1 Qh4
18.a4 Bd7
19.Qd2 Re8
20.b4 Kf8
21.f4 Ng6
22.Rf1

triangulator

9/25/2002
18:35:54

Go 6000

Message:
I am betting on 6000 to win, loyd, put 6000 on as much time as you can to think that is what tulkos is doing(I think)

dozer

9/26/2002
02:52:25

Just to remind you, tulkos

Message:
the game continued
22. - f5
23. Bd5 c6

triangulator

9/29/2002
15:45:13

???

Message:
when is the game going to continue
?

tulkos

9/30/2002
11:37:50

Right now.

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0 Be6
10.d4 Bb6
11.h3 exd4
12.Bxd4 Nd7
13.Bxb6 axb6
14.e5 Nxe5
15.Bxb7 Ra7
16.Be4 Qf6
17.Re1 Qh4
18.a4 Bd7
19.Qd2 Re8
20.b4 Kf8
21.f4 Ng6
22.Rf1 f5
23.Bd5 c6
24.Bb3

getoutofhere

9/30/2002
11:53:36

and then...

Message:
brunetti moved d5 i think (see conditional in his last post)

tulkos

9/30/2002
15:15:09

Maybe got it right this time----

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0 Be6
10.d4 Bb6
11.h3 exd4
12.Bxd4 Nd7
13.Bxb6 axb6
14.e5 Nxe5
15.Bxb7 Ra7
16.Be4 Qf6
17.Re1 Qh4
18.a4 Bd7
19.Qd2 Re8
20.b4 Kf8
21.f4 Ng6
22.Rf1 f5
23.Bd5 c6
24.Bb3 Qd4

certainratio

10/01/2002
06:43:56

wrong move

Message:
should be 24...d5.

tulkos

10/01/2002
12:43:51

arg!!

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0 Be6
10.d4 Bb6
11.h3 exd4
12.Bxd4 Nd7
13.Bxb6 axb6
14.e5 Nxe5
15.Bxb7 Ra7
16.Be4 Qf6
17.Re1 Qh4
18.a4 Bd7
19.Qd2 Re8
20.b4 Kf8
21.f4 Ng6
22.Rf1 f5
23.Bd5 c6
24.Bb3 d5

tulkos

10/01/2002
16:45:33

if Raa8 b5

Message:
1.e4 e5
2.Nf3 Nc6
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.Bb5 Nd4
5.Be2 Nxf3
6.Bxf3 Bc5
7.d3 d6
8.Be3 0-0
9.0-0 Be6
10.d4 Bb6
11.h3 exd4
12.Bxd4 Nd7
13.Bxb6 axb6
14.e5 Nxe5
15.Bxb7 Ra7
16.Be4 Qf6
17.Re1 Qh4
18.a4 Bd7
19.Qd2 Re8
20.b4 Kf8
21.f4 Ng6
22.Rf1 f5
23.Bd5 c6
24.Bb3 d5
25.Qd4

tulkos

10/02/2002
18:10:56

Hey Brunetti

Message:
It's your turn---finally.3-0

drcorbett

10/02/2002
18:28:00

Who's winning?

Message:
<topic>

triangulator

10/03/2002
08:00:56

hard to tell

Message:
but then again what do I know what does brunetti think?

tulkos

10/29/2002
12:27:54

Hey brunetti!!!

Message:
It's been your turn for a while now!!!

triangulator

10/30/2002
08:32:21

white has

Message:
forced mate in 45 moves... so he just quit

tulkos

10/30/2002
15:26:12

sheesh---

Message:
and now he's timed out?HEY!!brunetti--------

triangulator

10/30/2002
16:29:02

did you..

Message:
send him a private message??

Post a reply to this message: