| From | Message |
chris21
7/28/2002
11:36:05 |
 Subject: Ruy Lopez
Message:
Could someone please describe the Ruy Lopez opening to me. And its benifits and downfalls.
Thanks.
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snyper
7/28/2002
11:47:09 | .
Message:
www.angelfire.com/ok/devilchess/ruylopez.html
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chris21
7/28/2002
12:17:54 |
Message:
Why does black play d6? If there's a bishop knight exchange black ends up with a doubled pawn?
Not disastrous by any means, but you'd think an opening as famous as the Ruy Lopez would have taken this into account?
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certainratio
7/28/2002
12:35:42 | doubled pawns
Message:
doubled pawns are not automatically a liability
to be avoided. They can be good (to support
a central pawn push, to open a file, etc.).
Also, White would have to give up a bishop for
a knight (which could sometimes be bad) in order
to inflict the double pawns.
I'm no opening theorist, but I'm quite sure
the theory of the Ruy Lopez (the oldest
named and studied opening?) does not overlook
the possibility of doubled pawns.
CertainRatio
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snyper
7/28/2002
15:01:54 | .
Message:
I am tryin to study this opening right now because it is very strong. I however don't like that there is so much theory and that so much of the opening has a paved road.
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atrifix
7/28/2002
15:32:04 | Actually,
Message:
5. Bxc6+ is one of the aggressive and commonly played lines against the Steinitz Defense. The doubled pawns can be a problem for Black.
I will have to disagree with the site's claim that Capablanca dominated the Ruy Lopez. In my opinion, Fischer was the first to ever truly understand the Ruy Lopez, and he experimented with various ideas that have today become second nature.
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brobishkin
7/29/2002
00:17:11 | Ruy Lopez...
Message:
The object of playing the Bishop to b5 was evidently to still threaten the Black e-pawn by an attack on the defending Knight... A simple though, as was soon proven (with Black playing d6 for example) barren idea... But in the last thirty or forty year however, the Ruy Lopez (Spanish Game) has become extremely popular (thanks to Bobby Fisher) the move of the Bishop is no longer played with a view to an immediate and direct attack, but as helping on White's development while leading to a tiresome and cramped game for Black, in which early attempts at retaliation are almost invariably disastrous...
Bro...
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adrianallen
7/29/2002
08:16:08 | I agree about Fisher
Message:
BxC6 is pretty uninspired these days and gives black a good chance, although it was a powerful weapon when used by Fisher. This was probably more down to his playing style than the merits of the move. I have played Ruy Lopex a lot and I don't have the ability to make the exchange variation work for me.
This is an opening that is worth knowing well, but you need to research it well.
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adrianallen
7/29/2002
08:16:15 | I agree about Fisher
Message:
BxC6 is pretty uninspired these days and gives black a good chance, although it was a powerful weapon when used by Fisher. This was probably more down to his playing style than the merits of the move. I have played Ruy Lopex a lot and I don't have the ability to make the exchange variation work for me.
This is an opening that is worth knowing well, but you need to research it well.
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atrifix
7/29/2002
13:14:44 | Not
Message:
4. Bxc6, as Fischer played, but 4. Ba4 d6 (Steinitz variation) 5. Bxc6+ is a fairly popular and aggressive line. The basic idea is to play 6. d4, which was previously not possible because of ...b5.
The Ruy Lopez has been one of the most popular openings since its conception in the late 15th century, but IMO Fischer's games are more beautiful than anyone else's.
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edmaster
7/29/2002
15:10:43 | THE RUY LOPEZ IS FISCHER!
Message:
FISCHER IS WRITTEN THROUGHTOUT THE OPENING!
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refutor
7/29/2002
18:07:36 | why play the steinitz?
Message:
why not just play the mainline?
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 O-O 9.h3 etc.
i played this for a long time, but eventually i gave it up because of stuff like the scotch (3.d4) and the two knights (3.Bc4 Nf6). if i knew that i was going to get the ruy lopez, i'd play 1. ... e5 v. 1.e4 :)
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atrifix
7/29/2002
20:11:52 | The Steinitz
Message:
is considered one of Black's better defenses.
if I knew I was going to get a Two Knights instead of a ruy lopez, I'd play 1... e5 v. 1. e4 :)
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refutor
7/30/2002
05:04:30 | you've got to be joking
Message:
the steinitz is basically refuted...
check out any opening "tome" and with best play, white is += with any deviations by black resulting in even worse positions. there's a reason why *none* of the top GMs play the steinitz defense or the deferred steinitz...
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atrifix
7/31/2002
13:49:35 |
Message:
I would daresay that the Steinitz (which today almost always means the Steinitz Deferred) is not refuted. It may be slightly passive when compared with, say, the open variation, but it's just as good a defense for black as any of the theoretical replies to 3. Bb5.
And I suppose *none* of the top GMs does not include Nigel Short, Jan Timman, Piket, and a handful of others (Lautier, Sokolov, etc. on occasion).
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refutor
7/31/2002
14:48:15 | .
Message:
checking out the games (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 d6) from chesslab.com in the past 2 years with at least one GM being 2600+ the record is 4 wins, 2 losses, 6 draws for white. if you remove timman out of there, it's 3 wins, 0 losses, 5 draws for white.
i think the numbers speak for themselves ;) maybe the word "refuted" was a little strong, but it was excellent 100 years ago when the closed variation wasn't known. there are many better lines you can play v. the lopez than the steinitz deferred
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__mda__
7/31/2002
15:18:11 | yes but..
Message:
12 games is hardly a large enough sample to form conclusions. The fact that GMs use this defense at all gives it some merit.
And btw, the closed Lopez was known 100 years ago.. you have probably heard of the Chigorin variation of the closed, named after the great russian master Mihail Chigorin ( 1850-1908 ).
And i'll apologize in advance for nitpicking :)
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tombro
8/01/2002
04:37:42 | My knowledge...
Message:
...of this opening was increased by the recent study of the numerous games in Fischer's "My 60 Memorable Games" which feature the RL opening. I have recently obtained a copy of Alekhine's "Chess Battles", in which Ruy Lopez is prominent, and annotated by Alekhine, and hope to learn from that, too. The retention of the bishop by white, hoping for d4, seems to be more desirable than the exchange variation. However, RJF pulls it off either way, quite nicely!
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edmaster
8/03/2002
13:33:23 | THE RUY LOPEZ
Message:
WAS INVENTED BY A SPANISH PRIEST AROUND THE
14TH -15TH CENTURY!
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brunetti
8/03/2002
19:46:32 | Are you referring
Message:
to Ruy Lopez de Segura, edmaster?
Alex
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