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theinvisibleman
2/21/2003
03:58:33
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 Subject: Winning With The Philidor
Message:
I have recently been glancing over Tony Kosten's book Winning With The Philidor (Batsford) and his enthusiasm for this system makes me want to study it and play it, but is it worth the effort? Wouldn't my time be better spent on something like the Caro-Kann or the French instead? My scepticism stems from the fact that few people seem to play the Philidor and there doesn't seem to be much written about it. Just how seriously can one take Kosten's claims for this system? Thanks in advance to any who reply.
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chris21
2/21/2003
09:57:29
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Message:
I don't know much about the Philidor as I don't play it myself. However Eric Schiller is of the opinion that is has a "terrible reputation". If I were you I'd concentrate on the french sysyems such as the Winawer, Tarrasch and classical as these have a much better reputation.
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tovmauzer
2/21/2003
10:16:06
[ report this post ] | I know...
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several good players (much better than me) who often play Philidor. It's probably slightly inferior compare to French or Caro-Cann, but I'm sure it is playable.
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nwadvana
2/21/2003
12:54:02
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Message:
The philidor itself is a good system to use. Of course its underrated simply becuase its one of those passive systems. I played this as a begginer in chess, and i have learnt much from it. Its the type of defences where one slip gives away the win to white. Its definatly not the defence that you want to learn extensively for long term play. I used it, and ditched it becuase it was simply too passive. You would be better off playing the french or caro kann, also the pirc if you want similarity with the philidor. But play the philidor for the experience, it will teach you alot about defence, and strengthen your back rank piece control.
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tulkos
2/21/2003
12:57:42
[ report this post ] | The philidor isn't very passive if you play f5,
Message:
but It's a very diffucult defense to learn to play well.
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atrifix
2/21/2003
13:10:39
[ report this post ] | The problem
Message:
with playing ...f5 in the Philidor is simply that it's not particularly good, and it most cases White can obtain an advantage. The original Philidor as its creator conceived it with 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 f5 is practically refuted today.
The problem with the main-line Philidor is that it doesn't give Black a whole lot of winning chances. With good play, White shouldn't be able to force anything, and if he tries to press and overextends himself you can often take advantage of it. But Black's passivity doesn't offer a whole lot of counterchances (barring something like ...f5, which usually isn't sound). Hence why the French, Caro-Kann, Sicilian, et. al., enjoy more popularity.
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judokausa
2/21/2003
13:32:03
[ report this post ] | openings
Message:
There are several philosophies when it comes to what openings people should learn. A strong master (Dan Heisman 2285 fide and a columnist for Chesscafe.com) suggested that I (and all beginners) take up the French and King's Indian defenses to start with. They are sound openings, very thematic so the moves are easy to learn, and they teach key chess principles such as pawn breaks in the center. You should start with one opening and worry about learning the themes it uses. Why are the moves important? How do the moves of the opening support the basic opening principles? Trick and seldom used openings in interesting but if they don't teach you how to a sound game then why bother?
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myway316
2/21/2003
15:51:07
[ report this post ] | As I stated...
Message:
...in another thread,the Philador is perfectly playable,for several reasons:1st:Many players,as white,have virtually no knowledge about the defense,so they are on their own from the 1st move;2nd:with 2...d6,White is taken right out of his favorite book lines in the Scotch,Italian,Lopez,etc;3rd:it's an ideal choice when you're facing your basic attacking maniac. Many aggressive players,after making no progress against the Philador's solid front,will often blow up in an unsound sacrificial orgy,trying to bulldoze their way into Black's camp.Such caveman tactics seldom work vs.the Philador,if Black doesn't get panicked. As to theory after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4(there is no point in White playing anything else,since he must play this to open the center at some point,so right away is best),Black has 3 bad answers,and 2 good ones.The bad ones are:3...Bg4(preparing to give up the Bishop pair for nothing in return,after 4.dxe5);3...Nbd7,Hanham's move,needlessly constricting Black's position even more;3..f5,Philador's own idea,which has been definately refuted by GM Motwani in his book C.O.O.L. Chess(last page).The good moves are 3...exd4,removing the threat to e5,and preparing a dark square clamp with g6,Bg7,Nc6,etc. The most aggressive idea for Black is 3...Nf6,Nimzovich's move
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kahju
2/22/2003
00:41:10
[ report this post ] | good/bad
Message:
well Philidor is a system you can play as both black and white. If you master it well it will be extremely hard to crack. In this system the most popular way of play is nowadays Nbe7 before e5 if as black.
Fili players prospects for win often lie in a better ending somewhere down the line. I find the system somewhat boring myself but for eg Fressinet does not think alike.
It must be noted that you need to have considerable understanding of the game to master the cramped positions and to be able to get good results with them.
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atrifix
2/22/2003
01:48:06
[ report this post ] | A friend
Message:
used to play 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 Nbd7 intending 4... e5 (and avoiding 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nf6 4. dxe5 Nxe4 5. Qd5), but of course the main possibility is 4. f4. This is playable, but you have to be familiar with various sidelines.
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peppe_l
2/22/2003
07:29:29
[ report this post ] | Also
Message:
Speaking of aiming for positions most opponents dont know so well, it isnt so simple because openings such as Philidor allow a great freedom in choosing a setup against it. In practise this means your opponent might not know exact theory lines (in slow and positional opening like Fili this isnt so important IMO), but he can easily get to a position he likes and knows how to play.
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werwolf
3/13/2003
04:41:36
[ report this post ] | I'm playing Philidor
Message:
I'm playing Philidor sometimes and i can say that is good opening especially against combinators and strong players at all. But if you are going to play philidor you must be good positional player with good defensive skills.
P.S. interesting that Tony Kosten has written two books about The Latvian Gambit - counter attacking opening which strategy is opposite Philidor :-)
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