| From | Message |
gameknot_com
11/28/2002
17:45:15
[ report this post ] |
 Subject: A few changes in the forums
Message:
I have just finished a few changes in the forum script, and this forum is going to be the testbed. If you notice any issues or bugs, please don't hesitate to contact me directly. Thank you!
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tovmauzer
11/28/2002
18:00:25
[ report this post ] | ...
Message:
No forum rating anymore?:)
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ufo84
11/28/2002
18:04:01
[ report this post ] | ok
Message:
You just answered my e-mail. What sort of changes will there be?
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astinkyfart
11/28/2002
18:04:45
[ report this post ] | i dont like this at all
Message:
i think u will be flooded with forum post since it is now just a click away. i love this site but it is the most controling site i have ever been to on the internet. u actually have a flame wars post forum and then people are constantly loseing the right to post because someone is offended. i forsee alot of people being banned now. hope i wrong
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gameknot_com
11/28/2002
18:16:00
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Yes, forum rating is gone. It was introduced so I can easily detect if there's trouble in the forums (someone with a large negative rating). But it was way too inefficient and slow. Yes, I do hope we will see a lot of people banned because it is just a click away now. I haven't been reading the forums in a while, and just this morning I went to see what's going on in the flame wars, and after reading a few threads I saw people swearing left and right. The only explanation why nobody contacted me about it that I can think of is because noone cared enough to go to contact webmaster page and write to me. So since now it is much easier to point out the problems in the forum, hopefully people will start doing it more often.
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ufo84
11/28/2002
18:22:46
[ report this post ] | but remember
Message:
dont ban a person if they do one minor this wrong like say "a**"(note-using this as an example, please dont ban me again). But if you continue to get messages about the same person then yes ban them.
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chuckventimiglia
11/28/2002
20:32:26
[ report this post ] | I think this is great Mike
Message:
I do not think that anyone will be banned that is respectful of others and does not resort to
ridicule and name calling. These forums should be where adults can discuss things in an adult way.
Yes, I think this is another + for Game Knot.
Just my opinion!! Chuck
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zoobrenok
11/28/2002
21:17:02
[ report this post ] | I have a problem
Message:
In threads with tons of short messages, 'report this post' will become annoying.
Maybe we can keep it as is for now and then change it to some 'symbol'? Or maybe we can something different to enchance UI?
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zoobrenok
11/28/2002
21:18:27
[ report this post ] | what are << - < - > - >> links for?
Message:
what are << - < - > - >> links for?
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zoobrenok
11/28/2002
21:19:41
[ report this post ] | Why I can report this post and...
Message:
Why I can report this post and leave all fields empty?
Are you getting email with 'empty' report or it is being deleted or this is how you want it?
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zoobrenok
11/28/2002
23:40:08
[ report this post ] | SUGGESTION ABOUT +/-1 FEATURE
Message:
Let's keep it on GK Forums.
BUT -- with one slight change: it will work just it used to except it will not update Forum Rating in database. In other words - it will be only for some people to get their anger go into "brainles' minusing of someone :-).
Think it is a good idea?
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javelin
11/29/2002
01:04:32
[ report this post ] |
Message:
It seems that the << - < - > - >> function has not been fully implemented yet.
Assuming:
< = previous thread
> = next thread
<< = yep, you guessed it ...
Right now, the script assumes that the previous thread is the previous thread_id, and the next thread is the next thread_id. But the previous thread is actually the one that is above the current thread in the forum view (i.e. the thread overview screen). Because I want to be able to browse through threads where there are new "last posts".
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javelin
11/29/2002
01:05:10
[ report this post ] | forum rating?
Message:
kill it! :)
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javelin
11/29/2002
01:07:57
[ report this post ] | Umm
Message:
About the
<< - < - > - >>
it would be even better if there was a mouse over action (like the player rating on the playing board) that shows the name and author of the respective post ...
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zdrak
11/29/2002
04:27:02
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Profanity on this site, by itself, is NOT A PROBLEM. The only problem is - sometimes this profanity OFFENDS PEOPLE. And when someone is REALLY offended, he can always spend 2 minutes of his life filling out the "report webmaster" form. Of course often people will see a profane or semi-profane post on the forums and get semi-offended - but not REALLY offended - as is shown by their lack of desire to spend 2 minutes of their lives to report the situation.
Now we have the tool for all those semi-offended people to vent their frustrations instantly. And what is the goal of this policy ? I find the following statement particularly interesting:
gameknot_com wrote:
"Yes, I do hope we will see a lot of people banned because it is just a click away now"
Note that his goal isn't "get less profanity" or "get more friendly forums" but rather "get more people banned". In that, I am 100% sure he will succeed, but as for getting friendlier forums ... not a chance.
This police-state-policy is doomed to fail - unless of course you define the criteria for success as "getting people banned" - in which case it will be a resounding success.
It seems to me that many people will soon reconsider their desire to be registered players on this site at all. Just my opinion.
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mattchess
11/29/2002
08:06:23
[ report this post ] | agree with
Message:
Chuckventimiglia.
I think this is a plus.
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cheetah
11/29/2002
09:08:02
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Losing the forum rating?
Aldo I am very proud of my +60 forum rating, wich is probably the highest of GK users, I'm ok with this! I think it will make people speak their minds more easily and less worried about it. Also I think some ratings are clearly unfair, one thing is minusing someone agressive or arrogant the other is minusing just because we disagree.
But... I dont like to see the "report this post" option in every single post... it's confusing like zoobrenook said, specially with a sequence of short posts,
and zdrak has some good points.
tough decision...
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victord
11/29/2002
10:33:07
[ report this post ] | agree with zdrak ..
Message:
Big brother is watching you now!
I can't believe Mike actually said he WANTS to see people banned.
Childish. Go to your room. Control freak, police state mentelity.
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ufo84
11/29/2002
10:52:43
[ report this post ] | can't say
Message:
I can't say i agree with zdrak that he doesn't want more friendly forums, but i can't come up with a good defense.
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nobody
11/29/2002
11:15:54
[ report this post ] | maybe
Message:
For the sake of two minutes a lot of people are going to get banned. That two minutes also gives the player a cooling of period to rethink what they are doing. Cant stop a click once you have started it. Who is going to check all the complaints. For what Mike is proposing to work people would have to use the function sensibly. I think its going to make it too easy to get rid of people you dont like.
I also think if it has to be used, then perhaps it could be restricted to paid members use only. Afteral its also in thier best interest for Game Knot to be successful.
nobody
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zdrak
11/29/2002
11:22:51
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Ok, I also believe Mike wants friendlier forums (as an end-goal), but I think his means of dealing with it are completely wrong. More bannings and more complaints are simply not the answer.
Look at it this way: before the forums change , it was very very easy to give a minus to someone, right? Just a click away ... And indeed people were complaining about "brainless minusing" and about other people abusing the "minus" just to hurt others they didn't agree with.
And now, after the change, it's very easy to report a post. About as easy as it was to minus someone, right? Actually it's even worse, because:
a. You could only minus your enemy once, but now you can report multiple posts by your enemy ...
b. The post report is anonymous.
So basically what we have here is a remake of the +/- system, with three slight changes:
1. There are no plusses anymore at all
2. There are much more minuses
3. The webmaster has to review each minus personally
Doesn't seem like a good idea to me ...
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legion
11/29/2002
11:33:55
[ report this post ] | Anonymous?
Message:
I wouldn't bet on it. Not anonymous to Mike, anyway.
Mike would HAVE to know were the reports are coming from or it would be a complete farce.
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gooftrooper
11/29/2002
11:38:09
[ report this post ] | chuckventimiglia
Message:
why should this forum be for ADULTS to discuss things in an ADULT way? what about us kids, we should be allowed to!
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parrvert
11/29/2002
11:46:47
[ report this post ] | I think this is a bad idea
Message:
All of the posters who provoke debate will end up banned and there will be little of interest left.
However I think victord has overreacted with his posts in various threads complaining, this is only a test and as Mike said, he has not been reading the forums recently so he probably thinks there is more of a problem than there actually is.
I say those who object to this idea, click on the report this post next to gameknot.com's post and complain.
P.S. This could be my last post before being banned!
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gameknot_com
11/29/2002
12:00:30
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Ah, another proof that it's such a nice and friendly atmosphere in the forums lately -- my words are turned around and twisted in such a way that GameKnot is a police state now, the Big Brother is watching and victord is telling everyone not to report him for using the word "ego" because I'm apparently "looking to ban people". It just fills me with warmth and desire to improve this site even more. All I want is to minimize my involvement with the forums, so I can better spend my time implementing new features and improving the site, instead of trying to resolve conflicts in the forums all the time.
victord, let me ask you something -- every time you see a police car on the street, do you start yelling "they are out to get me, they are trying to arrest everyone, help!". No? Why are you doing the same here? How many people have you seen here who were banned unjustly? What makes you think it is all going to change now? And yes, if you haven't noticed it yet, there are quite a lot of children in the forums. Why else would you have someone post like a dozen of messages with some rubbish inside? Or call someone names and when confronted, say stuff like "everyone else does it, why can't I?" and "but he is what I called him, so it's not an insult".
zdrak, using of profanity in the forums IS a problem. Simply because it is prohibited by the forum rules. If people can't follow simple rules, or even worse, can't express their thoughts and opinions without resorting to offensive language, I really think they deserve to get a time out.
The "report this post" link simply brings a certain post to my attention, it doesn't automatically get anyone banned. I've said it many times before -- if you respond to insults with another round of counter-insults, you are not part of the solution, therefore, you are part of the problem. What I meant when I said I really hope to see a lot of people banned because it is just a click away is that I hope that instead of replying with more insults people would start to report the troublemakers and let me handle the problem, and that would make the forums much cleaner.
Sorry everybody, I do understand that it's just a few people here who are giving me hard time, most of you probably support me. But it is just too upsetting, I'm going to see a movie or something, even though I was planning to work on the site all morning...
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zdrak
11/29/2002
12:23:26
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Mike, the least of my intentions was to "give you a hard time". Nor, I'm sure, was victord's or anyone else's.
But since you brought up this policy to discussion, you just have to face up to the fact that some of us disagree with it. Of course you are the boss, so eventually it's your call, and nobody denies that.
But some of us just don't think the path you chose is the right one. As for the questions wether we are "just a few people" and wether most of the people support the new policy ... that remains to be proven. I encourage everyone to speak up his opinions regarding the new policy, and do it in a civil, reasonable manner of course.
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victord
11/29/2002
12:54:52
[ report this post ] | One of the few.
Message:
That would be me.
Mike did you not imply you were "looking to ban people"? I think so.
When I see a police car on the street, I feel good, they're doing there job, watching out for me.
The policy of the police is NOT to put people in jail. It's to serve and protect. I've never heard a police officer say " I hope to put a lot of people in jail"! At least not in THIS country! I believe they hope they DON'T have to put a lot of people in jail.
Yet, you state " Yes, I do hope to see a lot of people banned"
Stop me when I tell a lie Mike!
victord
ps .. As far as minimumizing your involvment in the forums. That's a good idea. I voted to move the Flame Wars/Trash Bin outside of GK (minority opinion)
Sorry everybody .. my fault ... Mike won't be working on the site today because of me.
Didn't mean to upset you so much Mike, but the attude of "I hope to see a lot of people banned" upset me, so I'll post my opinions as long as I'm allowed to post. If you hope to see people banned, why not just ban those of us that upset you and be done with it. It's fine by me, afterall it IS your site and you set the standard for behavour. So be it.
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astinkyfart
11/29/2002
13:09:30
[ report this post ] | this new way to handle
Message:
forums in my opinion mike will increase your involvement not decrease it. i could be wrong but i would bet you will get alot more reports now. half of which will be nothing. also how can u use bad language in here its bleeped out. i dont feel personally attacked but it does kinda feel over policed here now. i will probably just end up playing chess and not even posting. its like someone watching your every movement while u shop. u dont have to be a crook not to like it.
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triangulator
11/29/2002
14:12:41
[ report this post ] | great idea mike!
Message:
I am all for it
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astinkyfart
11/29/2002
14:29:13
[ report this post ] | suck up
Message:
oops there i go
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rodge
11/29/2002
15:23:45
[ report this post ] | I personally...
Message:
... think that Mike does a smashing job with this site. Every change he has made has improved the whole experience here and I believe he's trying his best to improve the experience with this forum change. The problems with public forums is the same all over the web. No policing and the kids destroy them with meaningless gibberish. Overpolicing and no-one can have any fun on them anymore.
Mike's rules are the site's rules. Just because a lot of prople don't really read the forum rules doesn't mean they don't apply. I agree that maybe this could cause more work for Mike in the short term, but in the long term this could make for a better forum. I'm sure that's what Mike believes and as a lot of us who have been here for some time can vouch, Mike usually gets it spot on!
And as for the police state argument, if you needed the police, would you rather be able to pick up the phone, dial and get a response quickly. Or would you rather ring up, get put through a series of options before getting put into a call queue. In my experience, Mike has always dealt with any queries or problems really quickly and this new option just makes contacting him regarding forum issues even quicker.
Who ever said it was a democracy.....
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gameknot_com
11/29/2002
15:36:36
[ report this post ] |
Message:
Yes, victord, I would like you to stop taking my words out of the context. You have done it several times before, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you are doing it again. Just in case if you are unclear about what I'm saying -- I never said I was looking to ban people.
To make this discussion a bit more constructive, here's my position:
1. I reserve the right to revoke posting privileges of anyone who is in violation of the forum posting rules;
2. It is a good thing that it only takes two mouse clicks to bring my attention to any violation of the forum posting rules now;
Please let me know which of these two you are disagreeing with and why. And I'm still waiting for any examples of when I banned people for no valid reason and why do you think it would start happening now.
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b0bbyfischer
11/29/2002
17:35:30
[ report this post ] | Mike
Message:
your prior post
"Yes, I do hope we will see a lot of people banned because it is just a click away now."
Your last post
"I never said I was looking to ban people."
You are not only looking, but you have implemented a quicker way to do it. What am I missing here?
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drcorbett
11/29/2002
18:30:44
[ report this post ] | It seems,
Message:
as if the Report this Post feature has gone in other posts. What's with this?
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astinkyfart
11/29/2002
19:06:39
[ report this post ] | the only thing i dont get
Message:
is mike stated no one cared enough to contact webmaster about some of the problems. so lets leave it at that. we arent offended so whats the big deal. i see your point wanting to keep things down just wonder why the change if no one was really complaing? or were they? if most people feel offended by others post then hey great i dont want anyone to compare this site to yahoo or other game sites. if its that big a problem then i guess its needed. i post on a regular basis and have never been even slightly offended. but i guess some do. bottom line is this is my favorite site bar none it wont really affect me either way , just hope its not abused. i dont know the reasons behind anyones ban so i guess as long as someone really deserves it then no biggie. i have been known to get somewhat colorful in my post. i just hope someone isnt offended by a comment and i get banned.
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mormel12
11/30/2002
13:27:09
[ report this post ] | hi there
Message:
i guess the confusion about the whole thing here is because most people here don't undestand what the +/- function was implanted for.
the brief explanation from mike in the initial post is overlooked, i guess, and that's why all of you got a bit upset.
i think there's no need for that and i also think you people overreact.
as i see it, this "new" future isn't that new but a refining of the original.
the fact that mike stated he wanted to get more reactions on unwanted messages comes from some of his own observations,as i understand.
i'm member on this site for quit some time now and never saw anyone banned (as far as i know) that didn't make it happen by him/herself (although i can't remember a her-:))
why won't we give mike the credit.
he did a great job in the past, so why should that suddenly change.
after all it isn't such a big problem to behave ourselves, is it?
let's not make a big deal over nothing.
greetings.
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richardgee2001
12/01/2002
06:52:32
[ report this post ] |
Message:
"Report this post to webmaster (anonymously): "
-->I don't see why it should be anonymous - if I was offended by a post, I wouldn't mind giving my name. Making it anonymous encourages multiple usernames / fanatic groups to report multiple times or over-enthusiastically.
I think it is a good idea though and although I'l be sorry to lose my forum rating, I would never have caught up with Cheetah anyway :o(.
As for the police state people - I don't think Mike is suggesting that every person who gets a post reported is banned. If I was him I would only look at the posts reported multiple times unless there was a particularly interesting comment with it.
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dozer
12/02/2002
03:27:24
[ report this post ] | Mike
Message:
I don't think the ones who provide different views are in any way meaning to belittle the efforts you have made for this site, the site is truly great! But change usually brings fear about... That's because change is not allways for good, even if it is meant to improve things and with good intentions. But I trust your judgement on this one Mike, whatever you deside to do with this feature. Especially if it makes your job easier.
Still I miss the +/- feature!!
Kind Regards,
Dozer
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cheetah
12/02/2002
06:01:46
[ report this post ] | :(
Message:
this is just something I wrote about absolute_genious geting baned and it aplies here perfectly:
Unhapy with GK?
My advice?
go to a chat room, or other web forums and experience 'the joy' of total freedom. Experience the joy of seeing your post be completely ignored cause in 5 minutes, 30 other posts kicked yours out of the 1st page, experience the 'bump' thing you will be forced to use, to keep interesting threads on top, and experience 50 or 100 on-line users all doing the same, bumping threads!! Experience forum managers who are nothing but users picked by the webmaster and experience having discussions with one of the 'old guys' from the site. Experience being insulted, and with neat pictures too!! Experience sharing a forum with 5 or 6 Trolls that ruin it, that get kicked out every day or so, and then come back, again and again.
I didn't stay very long in many forums except GK's.
If a person searching for good discussions about anything comes to GK forums and sees swearing, ridiculous posts, pointless posts all the time.. he will leave. I've found that many GK users are very friendly over the board, they have long discussions etc, but they refuse to get involved in the forums. Remember OAP? I'm not saying he was right about some things he said but yes, the forums did evolve in certain direction and they are repeling many good and interesting persons, normaly older/mature persons who rather have calm discussions over the board than geting involved in a forum mess.
It is Mike's rules and the good character of chessplayers in general that make this site a special place! I say we should make an effort for the "report post" buton shouldnt' be necessary! Has I've said, I dont like it. I dont need it to report insults. I'll e-mail Mike as I have done before.
I will do it again anytime somebody lacks the respect for me.
Lou
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vietnamese_girl_18
12/04/2002
01:28:10
[ report this post ] |
Message:
I agree with Lou and others that these changes are for the better. I don't think for a moment that Mike is looking to make this into some police state where the most minor of infractions results in a ban. It hasn't happened before and I'm sure Mike doesn't have the time for policing everything. The +/- feature hasn't proved to be useful. Yeah, like cheetah, I'll miss my nice +50 forum rating (it'll probably be the only time that I'll be in the top ten of anything here at GK!), but I always felt it was just a kind of popularity contest getting plussed or minused.
The forums here have their ups and downs, but for the most part it's enjoyable to come back to them in a way that I've certainly not found at any other chess site. I think some of the fears expressed about the changes are understandable, but I don't think things will work out the way some have suggested.
Mike has done an excellent job and I think this is a continuation of improvement.
Sarah Tran
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nobody
12/04/2002
04:24:01
[ report this post ] | Ban
Message:
To ban a person. With the hope to stop them re-offending.
What if its a one of offence?
Everyone has a bad day evey now and then. I think a better idea, would be a delete this post facility. Otherwise the person who posted it (who may already be regreting posting it) would be banned and the message remains.
If the message is vulgar or profane. Then get rid of the message not the messenger.
nobody
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nobody
12/04/2002
05:29:12
[ report this post ] | delete this post
Message:
Expanding my previous idea:
As the idea is for Mike to have more time to work on improving the site, rather than spending time checking out complaints.
How about the members being given more responsibility?
If instead of the proposed report this post
How about?
report this thread
With the thread host having the means of deleting any offensive post.
The feature could be useful not only for nasty post but also unrelated post that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
nobody
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a_train_5
12/04/2002
11:10:34
[ report this post ] | A+
Message:
I think this is great, Mike's site- Mike's rules. Also, we are being given an easy way to report threads to Mike that we feel are inappropriate. Mike still has the final say. Just because people are reporting the threads doesn't mean people will be banned for no reason.
Good work Mike
A-Train
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chuckventimiglia
12/04/2002
14:53:45
[ report this post ] | Mike has made GK.....
Message:
a great chess site. I would just let him
keep doing what he is doing and I am sure
the site will continue to improve. Chuck
|
episode
12/04/2002
15:49:49
[ report this post ] | yes,
Message:
it should be more easy for Mike to "clean" the forum with this feature than with
the +1/-1 one... and i'm sure Mike will look carefully to every reported post before
banning anyone, just as he always did !!!
greg
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omus
12/04/2002
15:51:07
[ report this post ] | a good change
Message:
This is a great site run by a very genuine person.
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legion
12/04/2002
17:20:08
[ report this post ] | I think that...
Message:
...Mike's arse must be getting very sore, what with everyone kissing it! :-)
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thumper
12/04/2002
22:54:51
[ report this post ] | My 2 cents
Message:
Mike has went out of his way to help me personally when another in the same position would have just ignored me. Bottom line....I trust his judgment and his character.
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bountyhunter
12/05/2002
13:46:50
[ report this post ] | Report this is a good feature
Message:
Mike has already said it will take more than 1 report to get banned. If you can't control your vocabulary here, then you don't deserve to do anything here. I'm all for it Mike. Thanks.
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atrifix
12/05/2002
15:16:30
[ report this post ] | My humble opinion
Message:
Despite having a +19/-2 forum rating myself, I'm also glad its gone. Agree with Sarah that it was little more than a personality contest. I think report this post is a great idea, however, I don't think it should be an anonymous form. If I'm going to report a post directly to the webmaster, I shouldn't really have a problem associating my name with the report. All IMHO.
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astinkyfart
12/05/2002
15:21:51
[ report this post ] | i love mike he is the greatest
Message:
i want to be like mike when i grow up
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