| From | Message |
levellerlevvie
10/17/2007
02:07:55
[ report abuse ] |
 Subject: Congratz to rodog ...
Message:
... for reaching the 2500 barrier! He's the second ever to reach it after the king of Gameknot: cyrano
Since rodog has been improving his rating since he started here at Gameknot we may assume he will be a serious candidate to take the crown of cyrano in the near future :-)
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rt4sm
10/17/2007
03:00:23
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
Possibly, cyrano's monopolized first place for ages, so it will be good to see a bit of competition. Rodog also moves like a cheetah compared to everyone else up there, which makes his rating even more impressive. Makes my 'achievement' of reaching 2000 seem pathetic...
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heinzkat
10/17/2007
03:15:14
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
rodog vs. cyrano at board #7001440
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nathanman22
10/17/2007
07:12:49
[ report abuse ] | All I got to say
Message:
Is since I came to gameknot in like 2002 or 2003, Cyrano has been the top dog and no one has gotten close to him. Correct me if I'm wrong in that, but I'm pretty sure he has dominated this site since the very beginning. Congrats rodog on reaching 2500....This will be the battle of two amazing chess minds. Good luck.
-Nathanman22
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tim_b
10/17/2007
07:38:55
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
I think mateintwo held the top spot for some time before cyrano flourished.
Well done, rodog !
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levellerlevvie
10/17/2007
07:53:53
[ report abuse ] | tim_b is correct
Message:
I also believe that mateintwo held the number one spot for a while, breaking the monopoly from cyrano for a while ...
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chessnovice
10/17/2007
07:55:22
[ report abuse ] | ...
Message:
tim_b is correct, sort of.
Back in the day, Gameknot had a controversial rating system that tended to inflate ratings. cyrano was unreachable, with a rating over 3000. When GK changed the ratings to an improved system, mateintwo spent little time capturing the top spot.
I kind of like having cyrano as our resident genius, though. He's become a quintessential Gameknot player. Very much Hall of Fame material. :p
And before I forget, congrats to rodog on an impressive accomplishment. It's certainly something I wish I were capable of.
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rt4sm
10/17/2007
09:58:12
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
Mateintwo was top dog for a while, the reason cyrano overtook him was mateintwo stopped playing much, and the rating of the top players has slowly inflated, so that enabled others to catch him while he stood still.
How did the old rating system work?
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steverand67
10/17/2007
13:39:06
[ report abuse ] | Is it just me...
Message:
...or are there others who didn't understand the game heinzkat posted at all?
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kansaspatzer
10/17/2007
15:53:10
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
I didn't either, Steve.
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chessnovice
10/17/2007
16:37:42
[ report abuse ] | rt4sm
Message:
The system was designed like this until November 2003:
"Rating is provisional until the player finishes at least 20 games. All players with less than 5 games are considered to have 1200 rating.
Timeouts are counted as wins only if there were at least 3 moves made in the game. But it is always counted as a loss for timed out players.
The rating system is based on a premise that a difference of 400 points gives you 99% chance to win a game. The first 20 games are used to establish your rating. During this time, your rating will be an average of the ratings of all players against which you have played, +400 if you win, -400 if you lose, the same if you draw. If you play against a player with provisional rating (i.e. who finished less than 20 games) then only 200 points will be added to the rating to compute the average in case of a win.
The maximum of two ratings -- at the beginning of the game and at the end -- is used as the player's rating for the purpose of computing the rating adjustments. Please note, that until you finish the 20th game, it is possible to lose points even if you win. This will happen if the rating of your opponent is more than 400 points below yours. That's why it is advisable to try to play against higher rated players in the beginning to establish the best possible rating.
For example, if you played 3 games and you won against 1200 player with provisional rating and against 1400 player with established rating, but lost against 1600 player with established rating, your rating will be:
( (1200 + 200) + (1400 + 400) + (1600 - 400) ) / 3 = 1467
Or, say, win against 1200 provisional, win against 1400 established, lose against 1600 provisional, draw against 1500:
( (1200 + 200) + (1400 + 400) + (1600 - 400) + (1500 + 0)) / 4 = 1475
Rating of your opponent at the time of the last move is used for calculations.
After 20 games, you gain 16 points if you win against a player with more than 400 points above your rating, you gain 8 points if you win against a player within 400 points of your rating, and you gain 1 point if you win against a player with more than 400 points below your rating. Also, after 20 games, you lose 16 points if you lose against a player with more than 400 points below your rating, you lose 8 points if you lose against a player within 400 points of your rating, and you lose 1 point if you lose against a player with more than 400 points above your rating. You don't lose or gain any points if you draw a game against a player within 400 points of your rating (or below), but you gain 8 points if you draw a game against a player with more than 400 points above your rating."
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ccmcacollister
10/17/2007
18:51:50
[ report abuse ] | Several ...
Message:
Others have been #1 since I come to GK in late 2003.
***
There was also MATE-IN-TWO ...who was very interestingly magnanimous in his reign; offering unrated training games to dozens of class-players. I forget how many at a time. Perhaps 10 or 20? But by the end, it was nearly an "all-comers" endeavor. Particularly interesting in that he would often tell those opponents just what his game plan was to be, during the game. Also did not shy from playing gambits in some, like the Petroff's "Cochrane" for instance. Yet in spite of those concessions, posted quite impressive results, even tho that was not the purpose of it all. Those interested in seeing more of that can probably pull-up the Forum threads for the MATE-IN-TWO Challenge by Google-ing them. They include the opponent "Waiting List" for that.
***
And before that, BOGG was #1 here for quite some time. He only gradually slipped down from the top spot after ceasing play to work upon creation of a computer d-base for a variation vs the Sicilian Defense.
***
My memory is not so sharp on others, but didn't CAIRO also hold the top rating spot at a time following BOGG ? And was it HARPOV that captured it by becoming the first GK player to break 2400 under the current GK rating system~?
florinserban has also been near the top ... did he ever capture it too? I cannot remember that, but do recall that at one point he certainly had the most impressive
heads-up results going vs other Master+ players.
***
And I don't mean to take anything away from CYRANO or RODOG , but neither want to forget the achievements of those others. Congratulations to you both, on exceeded 2500~!
...which is remarkable achievement in itself, whether #1, #2, or else-wise.
* * * * * * * * *
}8-)
******
PS// IMHO, They should receive Certificates for both their Rating AND Ranking results~! (I think maybe someone suggested that at one time !? :))
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chessnovice
10/17/2007
19:13:35
[ report abuse ] | ...
Message:
True, I remember bogg was controversial since he was at #1 in six games. But GK compromised by separating rankings for provisional players and established players.
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tag1153
10/17/2007
20:40:39
[ report abuse ] | I'm just wondering.....
Message:
.....what it is that they are putting into the water in Italy. These guys from "The Boot" are unreal:)
tag1153
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ionadowman
10/20/2007
02:21:57
[ report abuse ] | Rodog vs Cyrano...
Message:
... that was posted earlier looks like a classic opposite wing castling game, to me. These are often characterised by time and spatial considerations becoming much more significant against the material. In this game, attack and defence became rather finely balanced in a free flowing game. Since it appears that the game is still in progress, I won't say anything further...
Cheers,
Ion
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os5213
10/25/2007
15:40:28
[ report abuse ] | rodog
Message:
I've played both these players. They are magicians on the chessboard. I notice they both live in Parma, Italy. I wonder if they know each other personally and if they've ever played OTB against each other. It would certainly make for interesting chess. Oliver
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thunker
10/25/2007
20:18:22
[ report abuse ] | rodog
Message:
I played rodog once and squeaked out a draw. And was glad to get it! One tough player..... But very nice too!
Thanks for the past game rodog!
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heinzkat
11/14/2007
07:06:31
[ report abuse ] | Actually ...
Message:
Rodog has just taken the top spot - Cyrano's rating has dropped a bit due to draws.
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lighttotheright
11/14/2007
14:29:28
[ report abuse ] | Rodog is now #1
Message:
...just like heinzkat said. The system simply has not caught up with Cyrano's draws yet. I guess tomorrow it will be official.
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levellerlevvie
11/14/2007
14:35:48
[ report abuse ] | Under 2500
Message:
And the first time since long that Cyrano is below 2500. I'm pretty sure he will close the gap again soon. Nevertheless ... Gratz to Rodog with getting the top spot ... not much have achieved this goal in the past 2-3 years.
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heinzkat
11/15/2007
02:15:20
[ report abuse ] | Rodog is now #1
Message:
And the system has caught up with it too.
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nathanman22
11/15/2007
18:55:04
[ report abuse ] | Amazing--
Message:
Gameknot has a NEW champion--Congrats to Rodog....
-Nathanman22
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moonandantartica
11/16/2007
11:16:25
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
Yea this Rodog is a beast I've been following his games for a while now. I had a feeling he was going to give Cyrano a push sooner or later. Congrats Rodog! I expect Cyrano to make a comeback though since he is amazing as well.
Btw I noticed in Rodog's profile it says :
"TAKE NOTICE:
i never did and never will use friends to improve my rating... "
Is that a shot at someone or am I reading it wrong?
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nathanman22
11/16/2007
15:57:19
[ report abuse ] | and watch out
Message:
Because Mateintwo has caught up with Cyrano as well and is now tied with him...it will be interesting to see if Cyrano drops to 3rd tonight....
-Nathanman22
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brulla
11/19/2007
01:23:32
[ report abuse ] | What strikes me most...
Message:
... is the big difference of total games in progress:
rodog: 9
cyrano: 83
Any meaning?
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rt4sm
11/19/2007
05:17:27
[ report abuse ] | moonandantartica...
Message:
I noticed that in his profile too, i think he's trying to say he never uses programs to improve. Bear in mind he's not from an English speaking country so perhaps he doesn't speak completely perfect English.
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lexherman
11/19/2007
06:44:55
[ report abuse ] | profile
Message:
as i read it both statements on the profile seem to contradict one another but maybe i don't grasp the meaning.
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moonandantartica
11/19/2007
10:57:06
[ report abuse ] | ahh...
Message:
I didn't think of looking at it that way rt4sm. If that is the case then I gotta agree with lex that there is a bit of a contradiction there since at the bottom of his profile he credits someone else's analysis.
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nathanman22
11/23/2007
10:40:33
[ report abuse ] | Better watch out rodog...
Message:
I'm only 1000 points behind you now...hehe....
-Nathanman22
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steverand67
11/23/2007
16:49:52
[ report abuse ] | my guess...
Message:
would be that the bit about using friends for a rating boost is in reference to having higher rated players resign games for the sole purpose of boosting a friend's rating. The second part is just thanking that person for analyzing his games, which is hardly the same as the first part. Just my guess.
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nathanman22
11/23/2007
20:41:28
[ report abuse ] | assume the best--until the worst is proven
Message:
I think you are right. It's really not fair to assume the worst until we hear straight from the source. It's always better to ask that person directly rather than talk about it in a random forum. That is why up to this point, I haven't mentioned anything directly related to that thread of conversation. I had to comment on the fact earlier though that I am exactly 1000 points behind him now. I think the best way to solve this is to stop talking here on the forums and pm him asking him about what he meant. No reason to assume double standards or deception, when steverand produced a very logical explanation...Just a thought, but what do I know?
-Nathanman22
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rt4sm
11/24/2007
04:22:11
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
Good point steverand, didn't think of that one! And i'm less that 500 points behind him, so close yet so far...
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javel
12/24/2007
02:54:29
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
About number one I remenber that Duchess and longtime ago Brunetti were number one.
It is just my personal opinion but to be a real number one you need to play GK tournement regulary and play at least 20 or more games also you should not choose who to play .In this way Cyrano is best .(sorry for bad english)
Merry Christmas to all
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brulla
1/07/2008
05:10:02
[ report abuse ] | cyrano wins...
Message:
...the game against rodog, it seems to me. I do not understand
rodog 's last move. See  game
But it still will not help cyrano back to #1, though.
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heinzkat
1/07/2008
05:16:45
[ report abuse ] | Funny stuff...
Message:
I like rodog's bragging on his profile, makes such a slow correspondence game more interesting. Still, brulla, let's not discuss a game in progress; it seems to me cyrano has ruined his own chances in this game earlier, but I might see this wrong. I know they've put a lot more effort in this game than I did :-)
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brulla
1/07/2008
05:27:00
[ report abuse ] | Embarrassing...
Message:
...message of mine. Sorry, folks! I should report it as "abuse"... of common chess sense!
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lighttotheright
1/07/2008
23:09:31
[ report abuse ] | brulla
Message:
You need to work on this end game. It is fairly simple as long as you know the standard technique. I'm sure that both rodog and cyrano know this ending well. The game is essentially over. But it is still polite to not talk about it until it is official.
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firebrand
1/13/2008
04:15:03
[ report abuse ] | My turn:
Message:
Rodog was really nice in accepting my unrated game challenge. I can't wait to start mixing it up with the Numero Uno on the board! I wont comment any more on the game until its finished.
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firebrand
1/19/2008
07:31:56
[ report abuse ] | I won:
Message:
Just an update in that I won my game against Rodog. He played the main-line Qd6 scandinavian which I had analyzed last year as being a very suspect defense for black. In this case, Rodog forced me to make quite certain this line is refuted as he played DEEP moves on every turn. The only way I could get a winning advantage was to spend several hours a night analyzing lines as long ast 30 moves deep, making sure I had covered everything. Even then it wasn't enough, I had to start getting creative in the endgame, using ideas well beyond what computers can see.
In the end, I believe rodog intentionally threw the game away on the last move, as I had him netted in for a 45-move checkmate endgame pattern I had mapped all the way out. I suspect as soon as he saw this, he intentionally blundered.
Anyway, I'm going to create a web page with full detailed analysis of the game and the fantastic endgame lines I scribbled down in my notebook as the game went on. Indeed this was the most physically exhausting CC game I've ever played!
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lighttotheright
1/19/2008
08:22:31
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
Congratulations Firebrand that was a good job; but I don't think Rodog would have played Qd6 in a rated game. You are correct that Qd6 in that opening is suspect. It has been suspect for years; but that does not keep very strong players who know this from experimenting with it.
Now try beating him in a rated game. I think it would be a bigger challenge. He is not likely to take those kinds of chances win the game really counts.
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tim_b
1/29/2008
04:05:57
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
I don't like the new message in rodog's profile. If I had a friend who was much better and higher rated than me, I would feel respected not 'used' if I was given rated games.
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nathanman22
1/29/2008
05:02:09
[ report abuse ] | Rodog is wrong...
Message:
I just took a look at those games against Tilly--Cyrano clearly had a significant advantage in every win. There was not a single throw game in the ones I observed. The fact of the matter is just because you play someone a lot of times doesn't make you a cheater and it is not illegal. Tilly and Cyrano's games were probably because they enjoyed playing each other--and it doesn't matter if you play someone 6 times or 100 times a year. The results of these matches are insignificant--Cyrano is clearly the better player. That accusatory response on his profile and finger pointing has greatly lowered my respect for rodog. I hope that Cyrano blows him out of the water. Rodog is totally wrong in his accusation and there is no reason for hatred just because Cyrano is as good or better than you. Cyrano has worked hard to get where he is--false accusations will take nothing from him. Cyrano take rodog down!
-Nathanman22
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zoltantor
1/29/2008
05:58:59
[ report abuse ] | About ratings....
Message:
All the top 10, 20 or 500 players here at GK (I repeat: ALL) have hard owed his ratings.
Complaining against the past opponents is, IMHO, a childish reaction.
Congrats to rodog to hold the #1 spot.
some links you want to know before....
MateinTwo vs Tilly:  gameknot.com
Cyrano vs Tilly: gameknot.com
MateinTwo vs Sabrina26_Ita: gameknot.com
What's wrong?
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heinzkat
1/29/2008
07:27:19
[ report abuse ] | ;-)
Message:
"Take for instance the 38 ! rated games played by RODOG since his LAST LOSS, with the following striking result: 33 points for Rodog, 5.0 points for his opponents. Rodog's Elo variation: around 90 + + points.
Doesn't all this look a bit strange?"
(now on a more serious note, I hope there will be no Topalov-Kramnik 'toiletgate' on GameKnot:)))
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javel
1/29/2008
10:33:03
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
hi all
I dont read or write Forum very often but I want to give my view on this.
I dont like reading personal critism against player, if Rodog has some trouble against Cyrano,it would be better to write him than to write on his profil.I have never played Rodog but I have played 3 games against Cyrano and I can say that he is very strong and very well prepared in the opening,also he is a nice man with nice words for his opponement .
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thumper
1/29/2008
11:02:43
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
I've had the honor of playing Cyrano only once. He struck me as a very nice person with chess abilities far beyond my keen. He gained little, point wise, from the game and I have it framed and placed in a location of honor. Play on.......
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sorceress_queen
1/29/2008
11:33:07
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
I do not see anything wrong in the games of cyrano and tilly.
Myself, I had played a lot of games with a player for training purpose...
What I see is this: mateintwo trained both, tilly and sabrina26_ita. For personal reasons he cannot continue doing it so often and passed the training to cyrano.
This is not a reason for such comments (unless I missed something hidden...)
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chessnovice
1/29/2008
16:29:17
[ report abuse ] | ...
Message:
It's one thing to make a blanket statement against rating inflation, but it's another thing to flat-out accuse another player in your profile. As sorceress_queen pointed out, there's simply no knowing what the story might be behind the situation.
My own rating is rather inflated because I have a couple of in-real-life friends (who only happen to be lower-rated than I am) that I prefer to play against. Sometimes I merely neglect to remember that there is an unrated games feature. If someone thought my rating was inflated, they'd probably right... though I definitely don't do it intentionally. And even if they were right, I would still find it entirely tasteless to be smeared on someone else's profile. Particularly the profile of someone who likely gets a significant amount of attention from the rest of the playing populace. I think that was just a graceless move on rodog's part.
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lighttotheright
2/01/2008
11:57:58
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
With due respect, I think some of you are missing the point Rodog is trying to make. Let's take a look at the circumstances surrounding his statement in his Profile.
(1) Rodog has a somewhat guarded use of English--not bad but guarded. (2) Both Cyrano and Rodog are from Parma, Italy. (3) They probably know each other. They might even be "friends". (4) Rodog wrote the original notice about using "friends" to increase your rating after it should have been obvious that he had beaten Cyrano. At such high level chess, it is normally safely assumed you are proficient at endgame--generally out of due respect. (5) Cyrano refused to resign the game until Rodog's rating had passed his. Yet still the game continued, despite the hopeless position Cyrano had. He was delaying the game for a reason. Perhaps he still hoped Rodog would make a fatal error--not likely. (6) Check the start date of their game. Cyrano was nearly 125 rating points ahead of Rodog when the game started. Rodog was still 100 point behind in rating points at a point in the game when he had a winning position. (7) Both players knew this. They are both too good not to have known this. (8) I've talked to people that have played and talked to Rodog. He really is a nice guy. (9) Take a look at his games. You have to respect him as a significant chess player.
I respect both these players a great deal. Both are incredibly good. I think a personal 'spat' got 'aired out' somewhat in public--it should not have been. It looks like Rodog has somewhat toned down his latest statements in his profile. Good.
Perhaps we can get beyond this. I believe Rodog is good enough to raise the highest rating ever achieved on GameKnot significantly. I'm looking forward to seeing his rating go to 2600 and beyond.
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tim_b
2/01/2008
15:23:24
[ report abuse ] | Hi, lighttotheright
Message:
I have to disagree.
An ad hominem attack in a profile, is, as chessnovice said, just a graceless move on rodog's part.
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lighttotheright
2/01/2008
15:57:57
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
What part do you not agree with?
I stated that it should not have been done. And he has corrected the error.
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