| From | Message |
smoky56
11/18/2007
09:24:27
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 Subject: fairwheather chessters
Message:
I have something to say to you people who start slow-playing at the first sign of a little advertisement. Get over your lack of adequacy and STAY IN THE GAME AND MOVE!
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chuckventimiglia
11/18/2007
10:43:34
| Players have the right to....
Message:
use all the time they are allowed.
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smoky56
11/18/2007
11:03:23
| not nessesarly
Message:
If you're not making moves in any games, yes you have the right to take as long as you need. BUT if you are stalling the games you are behind in and moving right along in games in your favor, that just aint right, no matter how you try to justify it.
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tim_b
11/18/2007
12:06:33
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Message:
It makes sense that people will slow down when they lose material or are in difficulty. After all, playing too fast or not thoughtfully enough often causes the problem in the first place - so of course they are going to try and avoid repeating their mistake.
Secondly, if you make a mistake and cause yourself to lose material or get into difficulty, again it makes sense that a player would slow down in order to carefully think about how s/he can extricate him/herself from the hole.
Whichever applies, it is respectful to the opponent because it denotes a desire to give them your best game and not your quickest.
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easy19
11/18/2007
12:29:13
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Message:
Some players just have manny games running (100+) , so they take there time to make there best moves in all of those games.
I am a fast player but wen 7 players out of my 50 games start moving i just can,t keep up and it Will take me at least 6 hours to catch up all of my games.
Wen i would take my time and play slow it Will take me days..and catching up all games is almost impossible..
Just do the math: ( on a fictional slow player)
- 100 games running Player spends 5 hours a day to move
- It is a slow player and it takes him 15 min for 1 game to decide what to Move.
- it is his move in 40 of his games.
- it is not his move in 60 games but 10% of those Will move whit in 5 hours (6)
- 40 times 15 min is 10 hours so he is able to move in 20 games a day(20)
- of that 20 games 25% Will move whit in 5 hour,s (4)
Conclusion he catches up 10 games a day if he keeps playing his 5 hours a day
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chuckventimiglia
11/18/2007
13:00:09
| A player has the right....
Message:
to use as much or as little of the time he is allowed.
This is not justifying anything it is a simple fact that
there are time controls and as long as someone plays within
those time controls he/she is playing correctly.
This subject has come up many times here in GK.
I suggest that if anyone feels someone is not playing within
time controls then a complaint should be sent to admin [as has been done
before] and they will be told the same thing. There is nothing wrong
with using some or all of ones allotted time.
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chessnovice
11/18/2007
14:14:27
| ...
Message:
One player's lack of adequacy should not give rise to another player's lack of decency.
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smoky56
11/18/2007
15:12:07
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Message:
You know,its not hard to figure out when you're making moves against an opponent and they come back with a move within an average of every 2 or 3 minutes and then fall behind on a move or 2 and end up in a game where they are very unlikely to be able to come back and then they don't move again for the rest of the day so you click on their name and find out they have in the neighborhood of 10 games going but their little green online light stays lit all day that their not responsible enough to carry out a commitment. They do whats good for them and really don't give much of a thought about what I would call fair play. When I make my moves I take the next player down the list and good or bad I make that move.If you choose to hide behind the technicalities of the rules and skip your "not too proud of" games as far as I'm concerned you lack any class at all! So go ahead and hide behind your " letter of the law" I won't do it!
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ionadowman
11/18/2007
16:18:02
| smoky56...
Message:
... Sorry, but if the player isn't actually violating any rules - and it's clear what would happen if he did try to use more time than his entitlement - then I can't understand that he's not playing fair. It is in human nature maybe to play quickly the games going well (i.e. are enjoyable) and dragging their feet on the less pleasant ones. At that he might well, in between rattling off the favorable games, be studying hard how to retrieve the situation in the unfavorable ones.
Suppose this is true - and bear in mind you don't know any different, whatever you might suspect or believe - then in my view he's giving the best he has in the losing situation, and I can't see how one can play fairer than that.
It's all too easy to second-guess your opponent and suspect or believe of him all kinds of underhand skulduggery, but for all you really know, you have to assume (or presume) the best of him. Failure to give him this benefit of the doubt is, in my view, itself not playing fair.
Cheers,
Ion
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muppyman
11/18/2007
16:22:28
| smoky56
Message:
Chess is a game that is won by making appropriate moves within the rules of the game. You almost give the impression that you want to win with insults instead. Nothing gives you the right to make demands of your opponents. Its as simple as that, and the mere fact that you disagree wont change anything.
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tag1153
11/18/2007
19:44:24
| A message from a speedfreak....
Message:
I carry a lot of games (usually 70-100). I also move very fast (with the exception of GK tourneys). To my knowledge, I've never been accused of dragging out games. However, on those rare occasions when an opponent attempts to rush me in a rude way, I virtually always slow down just because I can. I'll come up with my best candidate move and wait until the last minute before I play it. Chess is a big part of my life, mainly because it symbolizes all that is good and honorable and fair in competition between people. When faced with a rude or antagonistic opponent, I simply won't give them the pleasure of getting under my skin. I try my best to beat them, and if I'm lost (to quote a teammate) "I'll fire every bullet in the gun until it's empty, and then I'll throw the gun at them." I have no problem fighting on with a lone king at a snail's pace just to prove a point against these type of opponents. I of course then put them on my ignore list and never have to deal with them again. The truly funny thing is that if these opponents would just keep their mouths shut I'll resign any game once I'm convinced I can't draw it. I respect attitude and character over chess ability and knowledge every day of the week. I think that if people were just kinder to one another most of these type issues would never arise.
tag1153
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kewms
11/18/2007
22:31:33
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Message:
If you want opponents who move within minutes, play blitz.
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brulla
11/19/2007
01:18:11
| You all are right...
Message:
... and I agree with you concerning the sense and right of slow play.
smoky56, I understand your feelings, but it is just inefficient to ponder why
someone plays fast and then slowly again... if you cannot stand this, I recommend
FICS as a great alternative for your chess play. Of course, you are free to do as you like.
Kind regards,
brulla
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chuckventimiglia
11/19/2007
07:08:35
| I used to have.....
Message:
my green light on showing that I was on-line or not.
After people assumed that being on-line meant that you had to move
in all your games I turned my green light off.
Some people like myself come on-line NOT to make chess moves
but to see what is going on.
If this site did not offer forums or anything else besides chess then
I guess the reason to be on-line would be to make moves but
even in that circumstance it does not necessarily mean that moves
are being made.
I guess the best answer would be to worry about what you are doing
on-line and not to worry about what anyone else is doing.
If the number of games one is carrying does not keep one busy enough
to keep one interested in what he is doing then take on more games.
I found that if you carry 200 games then you will not have time to wonder
what anyone else is doing on line.
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kewms
11/19/2007
09:24:08
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Message:
It's pretty normal for someone to make a mistake, realize the game is turning against them, and think "Oh @#$%, I'd better take some time to figure out how to get out of this." It's pretty normal to take more time to move in difficult positions, and defending is almost always more difficult than attacking. It's perfectly normal to become frustrated with a difficult game, and walking away from it is likely to be more productive than smashing your computer or insulting your opponent.
Players have the right to use all of their time. Players have the right to manage their time in whatever way they like.
Players even have the right to use their time in the way most frustrating to their opponent. The psychological struggle is every bit as important as the movement of pieces on the board. If walking away from the board to give myself time to think makes you angry and frustrated, so much the better.
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nathanman22
11/19/2007
09:43:32
| As I said
Message:
In the other thread. You can't validly judge motives--why is the person taking more time to move? I too have turned off my green light because I am fed up with people's demands for me to move....I am playing over 50 games and I love it--I always have something to move--but I focus on certain games (league games or 36th gameknot games) and put the other games aside somewhat for awhile. I have started some long games with that title--letting my opponents know, hey, I'm going to take some time, I hope you don't mind. When they join, they agree to the terms I have set in the title. When you agree to play anyone--you agree to those terms and thus, have no right to complain.
If you want fast blitz chess with a chess rating try chesshere.com. I play there as well as at chessmaniac.com, redhotpawn.com and gameknot.com. Chesshere has a different ranking for blitz...so maybe that will help.
Don't complain about us players who move slow. We have lives to live...and things to do....and a losing position needs analyzing time...there are so many reasons, all valid. If you want fast players--enter fast tournaments or start games that have the title fast play--or challenge people with fast move times...all these options are available--and leave those who play at their own speed alone. Stop complaining--YOU have no right.
-Nathanman22
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easy19
11/19/2007
13:01:40
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Message:
I like you guys to turn on the green light :)
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zoltantor
11/20/2007
09:30:25
| ...
Message:
I'm sorry; I'm a slow player...
You can complain against me for it at anytime...
But GK is like Correspondence Chess, right?
Well; in most other CC sites the time controls are 60days/10moves cumulative. So if anyone don't like this kind of chess, better for him/her not starting playing it...
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lighttotheright
11/20/2007
12:53:50
| I don't mind playing slow players.
Message:
...especially in mini-tournaments. It's not a problem.
5d + 2d < 7d. That means you start with 5 days on your clock. When you make a move, you get 2 days added to your clock for a maximum of 7 days to make your next turn. Often a slow player will start to use his time early. That means I will get 7 days on average for each turn. My opponent will get only 2 to 3 days on average for their turn. Granted I'm not using all my time; but it is there in reserve when I do need it.
Meanwhile if my slow opponent gets into any kind of trouble, then he will be rushed to make a move...especially if he has moves for 20 or 30 games to make. So in mini-tournaments, it can be a disadvantage to being a slow player. That slow player can take his time as far as I'm concerned.
If I get into trouble, I'll have 7 days to create a working plan. If I work out my response to various possible moves my opponent might make during that time, then I can quickly recover my 7 days within a few moves by playing quickly again.
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rt4sm
11/20/2007
13:14:03
| cool...
Message:
This is a pretty hot topic! I enjoy games no matter how big a cheetah or a snail the opponent is, the time controls are there for people to use them how they wish, everyone should respect that. I play very fast in easy positions and i probably take about a day per move in difficult positions, though my speed there varies a lot. That should be fast enough for anyone...
While we're on the topic, i would like to take the opportunity to name and shame a team CAPTAIN who has exactly the same attitude as speedfreak tag1153 hates. I played pretty fast in the games against him, but he still decided to tell me i was playing too slow. I thought this was particularly bad coming from him, since he played a near perfect game taking about 30 seconds per move. Not even Capablanca was that good, no one is, so I'm assuming he uses chess programs. Using chess programs is a far, far worse crime than playing within the legal time limits, so i thought it was exceptionally rich of him to accuse me of being the criminal. Even if he doesn't use those evil machines, as a team CAPTAIN, he should he a tad politer, and i think it's only fair to warn other captains of his attitude before they do business with him.
P.S. His user name is flyordie...
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chuckventimiglia
11/20/2007
15:53:35
| Not a good idea....
Message:
to insult people by name in these forums.
As far as I know the person you mentioned above is a very good player.
I would not be surprised if you are not banned for what you wrote
above. At the least it will cause this thread to be shut down.
Never a good idea to make these forums personal.
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luckypawn
11/20/2007
15:56:34
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Message:
I wish my opponents would play slower
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chuckventimiglia
11/20/2007
16:00:15
| Luckypawn hello!!
Message:
A long while back one of my opponents get angry because I was moving fast
and "rushing" him.
I did not understand it then and still do not.
what does the speed of your opponents moves have to do with how
fast you play? If you allow your opponent to dictate how fast you move then
you are at a disadvantage and that may be a ploy of your opponent.
Don't let that happen. Take your time with your moves no matter
how fast your opponent moves.
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skipwallace555
11/20/2007
16:15:03
| smoky56
Message:
at the risk of you saying I am missing the point, and I am not, your complaint will fall on deaf ears here because the rules were set up well in advance of your complaint. And, as a previous writer said, "try blitz chess" if you want faster games. As long as the rules are being followed you are wasting your time in this forum. Direct your concerns to gameknot.com.
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luckypawn
11/20/2007
17:54:43
| hello chuckventimiglia
Message:
I believe I feel more inclined to play against faster players not because they're fast as much as because of their green light, which feels like a traffic light that requires immediate (or faster) action by me if it's my turn (which of course isn't true, but it feels that way) and because I feel less "alone" when it's my turn against a green opponent. Of course, that's not easy to do when I have nearly 50 games, but the less green light games with my turn, the more comfortable I am.
None of my opponents have ever told me to play faster, so they're not actually pressuring me any further than my imagination, and I've never felt angry at an opponent for being "too fast", because in CC there's no rule for too fast or too slow if you're within the time limits.
My last comment was meant to be light hearted....it would make me feel less pressured to play against slower players which I guess is a more specific way to say what I meant, but I don't seriously want my players to change speed just because it makes me more comfortable; I'd rather they played in whatever way makes them relaxed, and I should do the same. I found it much easier to be relaxed by hiding my on-line status, because it decreases the feeling of being waited upon for a move.
I don't think I'm a very slow player, anyway, in general, not that it matters if I'm slow or fast.
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kewms
11/20/2007
21:57:35
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Message:
FWIW, I tend to actively avoid moving against an opponent who is online. I tend to tackle my games in time order -- those with the least time remaining first -- and having an opponent respond while I'm online throws my rhythm off.
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dr_dread
11/29/2007
16:38:14
| interesting comments....
Message:
green lights,taking too long to move,ect,ect.i'm a USCF Master(2258) and I will be at approx.2185 in a few short weeks on GK.Lets see...green lights,i'll talk about that first.I keep my light off and purposely wait till my opponents goes out,then i'll move.I simply wish to be making the last move of the day,or not move too quickly since my depth of thinking is usually 10-12 moves ahead.if I left it on,my opponent would probably move soon again and this would cramp my style,since I have a timetable range of a certain amt.of moves i can make or not make in a 1 to 3 day period,playing about 150 games on 4 different sites.Its like 'buying"myself alittle more time both on the clock and time to think more...thus i win more!
As to any opponent that it bothers in any way shape or form as to how long i take in a move....if i know it bothers them....then i will intentionally on purpose TAKE LONGER!Hopefully they will get so upset or agitated,that they will simply resign!
Anyone that tells me i'm stalling,will have to wait for my moves,because now,i will wait 1 minute before my time runs out for the next 100 moves to show them that my psychology will win...not theirs or their opinions....and there is not one thing they can do about it except moan and groan....good!
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leo_london
11/30/2007
04:31:19
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Message:
I cant see its anyone's business how long you take to make a move..within GK rules. GK was devised as an on-line correspondence chess site, it came to my attention reading the chess column in The Times. That's how it was originally marketed, to allow busy people to play chess at their leisure.
As for the little green light, I am often logged on with no intention of making a move..just catching up with posts in the clubs etc.
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tim_b
11/30/2007
04:47:28
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Message:
I agree, it's simple enough, people are entitled to use their time as they see fit, it's not for others to reason why.
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throneseeker
11/30/2007
07:32:44
| Time Usage
Message:
Guess I tend to agree with those who say a player is in charge of the usage of their time. Any player may use the allotted time in any manner that they are comfortable with (including "stalling"). I occasionally find that it is to my benefit when my opponent takes longer than one would believe necessary - it allows me to analyze the game in more depth and devote attention to other games or other areas of the site. If I or they are not in violation of any GK rules then one has no real reason to complain. If you do not like their style of play, simply do not play them in the future.
Regards,ThroneSeeker
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buddie
12/01/2007
11:16:24
| The green light
Message:
When I log on, usually just once a day, I try to play the moves against the players with green lights, in the hope that I might reply and I get a second or third move that day.
Of course, sometimes this backfires and I end up playing 'blitz',rushing my moves and making a mistake.
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dr_dread
12/02/2007
19:37:01
| keep in mind all...
Message:
its impossible to break or go beyond any rules when playing on the GK clock.One simply cannot go beyond what they are allowed in days,so its impossible to break the rules,even if your life depended upon it!You can play during a time out,but then your opponent has the right to cancel your time out,and then that would be the opposite of slowing a game down anyway.So rule breaking simply does not and cannot exist and technically the word "stall" is therefore technically defunct as long as you aren't breaking any rules...which like I said,you can't!
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