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easy19
2/13/2008
01:13:12
[ report abuse ] |
 Subject: - Idea - Stars for the Stars
Message:
I was looking at the chess puzzles and they can be rated with difficulty stars. this gave me the following idea..
Wen we play a opponent and the game has ended in a win or loss or draw.
I like to get a option to give different stars to my opponent, that will be added to his profile the same way as the stars next to the chess puzzle.
Only not just for the player but for several things.
I am thinking of.
- Opening 1 to 5 stars for opening skill
- Mid game 1 to 5 stars for mid game skill
- End game 1 to 5 stars for end game skill
- Overall Skill 1 to 5 stars as indication of overall strength
there is more i can think of but i think that is to much.
Wen you can see those stars in someones profile you can get a nice and fast overview of a players skill and i think loads of people will like it.. ( i would)
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ccmcacollister
2/13/2008
01:29:23
[ report abuse ] | ewww
Message:
I think I would hate to be rated with stars. Maybe if it were Stars for games played healthy & sober. But little "IV" bags to rate games played ill. And little brown kegs for the others . . . ?! }8-D
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marinvukusic
2/13/2008
03:48:25
[ report abuse ] | That is what rating is for :)
Message:
The idea is flawed because it is not really easy to classify all games in 3 clear parts (opening/middlegame/endgame). Besides everyone can use the opening database that is available, so that is really not relevant IMHO.
Overall skill = rating.
There is always the question of rating a superior/inferior player:
- 1100 rated player plays with 1500 rated one
- 1800 rated player plays with the SAME 1500 player
Pretty complicated :)
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easy19
2/13/2008
04:19:55
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Message:
I think the rating difference is not a problem. marinvukusic
If a - 1100 rated player plays with 1500 rated one and he gives 4 stars for hard to beat.. :)
and the 1800 rated player who plays with the SAME 1500 player give 1 star
you get a average.. :) of 2 and a half star.. :) So i think that will work out..
About the opening and using the database i think you are correct
So ma-by something else...?
I just wrote this idea up wen it came up to me.. but i have the feeling we have something nice here..
ccmcacollister I know what you mean but i think a simple option in the profile to turn it on or off just like the on line star will solve it for people who do not like it..
And your idea is also nice.. if people can rate and Tag the game,s they have played for several things. ( we can also use that tags etc in a database search)
Example,s
- Tags > Game xxxxx (tagt Grunfeld defense)
- Stars > game xxxx (stars for how much people like the game)
- Colors > Game xxxx (Red = Fast game) (green = Long game) (Blue = Coach game) (orange = Interesting end game) etc etc
( we can also use that tags colors etc in a database search.
So we can find Al the games fast.
with for example Patzer opening Orange + Blue
Gives Al the games played with that opening that are marked as a coach game with a interesting endgame...
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heinzkat
2/13/2008
07:29:29
[ report abuse ] | I do not like the idea.
Message:
On another site you can offer your opponent several 'goodies' (?) after the game is over, like a 'handshake', 'applause' or 'a cold beer'. The amount of those received is shown on the profile.
I'm not so sure if we would want that here...
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easy19
2/13/2008
09:25:47
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
I thought of something like it heinz.... and a cold beer sounds good.. :)
But i din,t want to make it to personal and with my bad English well you know.. it gets to personal :P
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ccmcacollister
2/13/2008
10:02:48
[ report abuse ] | yes, heinzkat & easy ...
Message:
I do recall that site too. I did like the aspect there that they had a way of showing players who were good sports/ friendly etc. Don't remember all of them. But you could send a handshake I think. Maybe a flower!? :)
Well anyway, I kind of like the idea of being able to tell something of a player by the "gifts" they received. Maybe it could show if a player was FAST, or Friendly, Talkative,
Sharp or Positional. With an option to "turn off", as mentioned above.
On the Monopoly site, you can also send them a Horn. If someone is not moving, you can honk your horn at them . . . }8-D
[ I would be the guy getting all the horns here of course :) ]
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easy19
2/13/2008
10:11:33
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
* Freddy sends ccmcacollister the biggest horn he can find.. :)
( i never got the honor to play a game with you. You are now in my agenda.. :) )
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newjack
2/13/2008
11:09:13
[ report abuse ] | What if
Message:
you play someone that you just don't get along with.Not many stars given then. Just tell the person you enjoyed the game that should be enough.Just my thoughts tho.
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pgroenborg
2/13/2008
13:36:33
[ report abuse ] | Well, I don't like the idea...
Message:
... Because it will divert this site away from what all players are here for: Serious Chess.
We've got rating, that says pretty precise what our skills are, I for one have grave problems rising further than where I am at, around 1820...
What the stars and all that would do is to make this site more like Facebook, with which I am already up to my neck with these kind of things being send back and forth - and that after a fairly short period with a profile there (I only stay there because I started two chess games ;-))
Well I'm not afraid it'll stick here, I suspect the staff here is too professional to implement the idea - or I am an old fart :-) ... or both...
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chessnovice
2/13/2008
14:51:25
[ report abuse ] | ...
Message:
I think this leaves too much room for personal vendettas. I've seen these personal ratin systems in action before, and they do get pretty ugly pretty fast.
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easy19
2/13/2008
23:46:47
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
Think big guys.. :)
If players who play you can give you a star in how difficult you are to beat..
from 1 to 5 how can that get personal ?
specially if only players who have actually played you can give stars wen the game is over. if you play 100 games i do not think Al 100 give you 1 star because you are a hard to beat pain in the .....
And rating tells something but here on GK a 1600 rated player can easy be a 2300 player so rating here can be deceptive..
-----------
I just look at the puzzles they have difficulty stars.. why not for us..
-- This brings me to a other idea... because you guys do not like it. :)
And that is also with the stars and colors but now GK decides who earns them..
100-1200 rating 1 star yellow if won 10 games from a 2 star star becomes green
1201-1600 rating 2 Stars yellow if won 20 games from a 3 star 1 star turns green at 40 games 2 stars turn green
1601-1900 rating 3 star yellow if won 20 games from a 4 star etc etc
1901-2100 rating 4 star yellow if won 20 games from a 5 star etc etc
2101-2300 rating 5 Stars Yellow
2300+ rating 5 Stars Red
What do you guys/girls think :) afcourse 20 wins against the same opponent will not count.. :) and i think that it is a good indication next to the rating how good a player is ..
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heinzkat
2/14/2008
01:34:16
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
I give this idea... one red star with blue dots all over it. :-)
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marinvukusic
2/14/2008
02:56:26
[ report abuse ] | Why bother?
Message:
I don't even see the point. Be nice to people while you play against them and you will get "buddies" if that is what you are after - that is pretty much it :)
Rating is a pretty good indicator of overall skill, nothing needs to be added. I would certainly not bother with all this "star" business, and frankly stuff like this would only drive me away form Gameknot :I
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easy19
2/14/2008
03:44:58
[ report abuse ] | ?
Message:
Rating is not a good indicator of overall skill on GK... it is to easy manipulated (timeouts, double accounts etc etc ) and there are numbers of occasion where the rating just tells you nothing.
- Remove the star system from the puzzle,s what do you get. ?
just a puzzle but how difficult is it. ? you have to solve it to know..
So that's for me the same with the players on GK Rating is fine but i like to see it fine tuned. So i can just see in 1 look what i am up against whiteout checking loads of his/here games etc
And i think personal vendetta,s buddies etc is just a crappy excuse and tells me more about the one who use it as excuse to bombard this idea..
And leaving GK because of improving the rating system is ridiculous
I like you guys to think with me to fine tune the idea to something nice.
(chess players are seen as bright minds well show me...)
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ccmcacollister
2/14/2008
04:08:47
[ report abuse ] | The Elmer Fudd Award . . .
Message:
q(:oB) ... for fuddydudness.
>:oP) ... The Wabbit, for Wascals
"The Horn" is only at BETA stage; still under development . . .
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marinvukusic
2/14/2008
04:10:59
[ report abuse ] | Wrong argument
Message:
Puzzle is an "object" of sort, it has constant properties (like difficulty) that are more or less quantifiable although they are still subjective. Puzzle is also simple by nature compared to people (and does not have feelings!).
Chess player's skill changes in the course of time :
- long term as they progress (this is very important difference compared to objects/puzzles)
- short term - if they are not equally serious in all games, or they are experimenting with openings, happen to get ill etc.
It is not valid to give them complicated (and constant!) marks on different aspects of their play. Lot of work and questionable benefits. It is pretty hard to get real issues resolved on GK, right heinzkat? :)
Not to mention chessnovice's argument, which further complicates things.
About "here on GK a 1600 rated player can easy be a 2300 player so rating here can be deceptive" argument - how is that different from OTB chess?
Here at least you can look at their profile and see:
- "Highest rating won against" shows the player's top achievement
- "Lowest rating lost against" is a little harder, you need to click on that player also to see if he is one of those 26-0-0 players that appear regularly.
Finally - it seems that no one else thinks this is a good idea (6 players answered so far), and there were several reasons given (I didn't even recap them all in this post). Maybe you should let this one go? :)
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heinzkat
2/14/2008
04:40:25
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
The star ratings system wouldn't make sense (at all). That's what the normal rating is for, and everybody knows how to interpret that.
Imagine you've played Kramnik, and you give him 4 stars for the opening, 4 stars for his middle game. And 5 for the endgame. Yeah right... it just isn't that simple. Chess has many more layers.
The other system (with horns, snails, TGVs (trains grandes vitesses), flowers, pancakes, handshakes and applauses) would make more sense, works at least on another site, but still isn't wished (at least, for me. I guess there are plenty of others who will like the idea).
"Remove the star ratings for the puzzles. What do you get?"
The only change would be, that you cannot sort the puzzles on difficulty. You still have to see for yourself if you manage to get the puzzle right.
"1201-1600 rating 2 Stars yellow if won 20 games from a 3 star 1 star turns green at 40 games 2 stars turn green
1601-1900 rating 3 star yellow if won 20 games from a 4 star etc etc
1901-2100 rating 4 star yellow if won 20 games from a 5 star etc etc
2101-2300 rating 5 Stars Yellow
2300+ rating 5 Stars Red"
This system won't work. I have played on a site years ago which just gave you another icon (pawn, knight, bishop, rook, queen, king) depending on your numerical rating. This worked, at least a bit. But it did nothing more than adding a symbol to your rating.
0000-1400 Pawn
1400-1600 Knight
1600-1800 Bishop
1800-2100 Rook
2100-2300 Queen
2300-3000 King
When setting up a game, you could decide what "symbols" could join your game. Just a replacement for rating settings.
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easy19
2/14/2008
04:55:36
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
I am talking to the brick wall here..
Then idea seems to be very bad.. i think it is just narrow vision but who am i...
So i let this idea go...
Rating is everything Stars is nothing So Rating + Stars are no no improvement at Al Point taken guys... No more Stars.....
But a Other point and i think that is still good one
Game Tags >
You can tag your own games with tags for
- Opening ( name of the opening)
- Interesting end game
- Good Combinations
- I think more can be added...
I think that would be a nice addition for the annotated games and for a search feature
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heinzkat
2/14/2008
05:09:14
[ report abuse ] | easy19
Message:
I think the star ratings idea is REALLY no good... also your presentation of it (in English) doesn't make it sound like it is the ultimate next step to take! :-)
The 'tagging' of games however COULD be a big thing.
Like "Blunders, mating threats, brilliant, positionally exquisite" would be tags I would use for all my own games. No, the joking aside, the idea really should be good.
The opening (ECO code?) could/should be recorder automatically, the amount of moves should be taken, then a few extra notes (so-called 'tags') can be added by yourself (and by others)...
Then a searching system in which you can search for games (criteria opening/amount of moves/ratings) should make this overall, a nice feature. But I guess we won't see it implemented here before 2030!
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easy19
2/14/2008
05:34:54
[ report abuse ] | Heinzkat
Message:
What about dots.. :P you get 1 for every 100 wins. (just joking)
Nice to see you like the Tag idea..
The search feature is not a big deal yet.. specially if we get it in 2030 i think a good sorting feature also works (already implemented on this site)
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marinvukusic
2/14/2008
06:09:20
[ report abuse ] | Now you are getting somewhere
Message:
Tags would be nice, but of course it would be slightly problematic if the players would be tagging their own games. I can just imagine the mess :) but this is worth considering.
Opening tags should be automatic IMHO, I mean it is pretty hard to get the ECO codes exactly right if you are not a GM who is specialising in openings :I
Mating (and other) combinations would be interesting - especially if they are typical (like the way I got mated in this game  gameknot.com). The reason is that beginners/intermediate players could look up all games with "typical" combinations and therefore learn to recognize the motives and see how those positions arise in a real game (especially how higher rated players sometimes "steer" opponents into such positions).
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heinzkat
2/15/2008
06:25:01
[ report abuse ] | Sorry to come back on the initial star thingie...
Message:
But I just thought, it's like having a rating system instead of from 1 to +-2900, 1 to 5.
Also, sorry for mentioning the 'ECO' code - but that seems to be a simple way for a computer system to divide the openings.
"of course it would be slightly problematic if the players would be tagging their own games."
'Bad' tags can always be removed, I guess; this tagging system 'works' on other internet sites (at least, I think so...). Maybe we should be able to 'digg' games too (+ for like and - for dislike); I have never used it, but I think it is a system used alongside tagging.
Tagging, digging, what else have we got? :-)
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tag1153
2/15/2008
07:08:48
[ report abuse ] | I wish.....
Message:
.......everyone would quit talking about me:)
tag:)
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lighttotheright
2/19/2008
11:46:09
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
I agree that star ratings in profiles is a bad idea; but, star ratings for individual games that only you could view and rate within your game history (not public in anyway) might be a good idea. There would be an additional column on your personal games history, and the stars would be your own rating of the game...nobody else involved. Star ratings would need to be separated out by the system so that the ratings are not downloaded with the games by another person...unless it is your own personal game history.
I think it could be done. Although it might be a useful personal tool, would it be worth all the effort changing the system to make it possible? I don't know.
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ccmcacollister
2/19/2008
23:58:06
[ report abuse ] | easy19 ...
Message:
I give you a STAR for Trying~! }8-)
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