| From | Message |
munja100
3/13/2008
00:14:24
[ report abuse ] |
 Subject: Players that time out often
Message:
I noticed that there are some players that make a habit of timing out. They start many games during the long period of time and finish very small percentage of them. For example, mikeneal joined three minitournaments last year, and didn't finish a single game. Overall, he has 64% timeouts (out of 266 games). His highest rating was 1767, and now he has 993. Obviously, he's just ruining tournaments. But even if he started finishing games, he would badly hurt rating of some players that play fair, and avoid timeouts. Imagine what would happen if he joined Intermediate section of GK tournament - he would probably win all six games and cost other players 40 rating points each, whereas he shouldn't be able to join that section at all.
Isn't there a way GK could deal with players like this? I remember reading that loosing on purpose is forbidden. Shouldn't that be counted as loosing on purpose? I understand that anyone can timeout, even in 200 games (if he has that much active games and something happens to him), but such repeated timing out must be on purpose.
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skepticbob
3/13/2008
03:32:54
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
I agree. I think there should be some sort of repercussion for timing out frequently. And it can’t just be determined by the number of timeouts because, as you said, they may have had many going when something happened to them. But if someone timeouts frequently they should at least be prevented from joining tournaments, teams, and leagues (where one doesn’t get a choice who they play.) I could care less if they are still allowed to accept and make challenges. One need only look at their profile to see their time out history and decide whether or not they want to play. But things like tournaments? No. The hard part is determining what the frequency threshold for timeouts should be.
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chessnovice
3/13/2008
05:49:11
[ report abuse ] | With regards to the time out stats
Message:
I think that the timeout stat on the profile is a little bit deceiving. I always thought that stat fit better in the "Show More Stats" category, where you can isolate numbers within a range of 90 days, 1 year, or all time. I had 11 timeouts because I pulled my subscription for about a year. It could have very easily been in the 100s if I were a more active player.
Seeing the number of timeouts a person has is only part of the total picture. I think it's better to see if the person's been making a recent habit of it.
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tugger
3/13/2008
07:50:01
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
i timed out of a fair few games when i moved to cornwall, and my rating dropped from 1750 to 1350... i must confess i did think about joining the lower tournament, but then why? i'd rather be playing a higher standard of chess...
i am aware that because my rating is false i am costing other players more points than i should, but then i can't really do a lot about that, can i? besides, by having a lower rating, one gets more points for winning, so it all balances out in the end...
perhaps as far as the tournaments go, an average rating could be employed to decide whether a player should be able to play, instead of current rating. that would take me above the 1500 threshold, meaning i cannot dominate the lower sections...
other than that, we just have to accept that timeouts are part and parcel of cc chess...
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heinzkat
3/13/2008
07:50:21
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
"he would probably win all six games and cost other players 40 rating points each, whereas he shouldn't be able to join that section at all."
He would probably timeout all six games (only two days per move).
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munja100
3/13/2008
10:16:19
[ report abuse ] | @heinzkat
Message:
I said "if he started finishing games". It is not unheared of. Look at this tournament  gameknot.com . isjmr2007 has nearly 60% timeouts, and has the highest rank of nearly 1900. His rank when he joined tourney was around 1450. He finished a few games, won all but one, and than started timing out. Thus he gave 2 points advantage to some players, and cost others 20 to 30 rating poits. That is loosing on purpose, and by doing so, he affected the outcome of the tournament
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tag1153
3/13/2008
11:26:35
[ report abuse ] | If I ever time out......
Message:
......rest assured I'm dead. I recently passed 8600 games without one. While I doubt I can ever catch the awesome record set by gothicgirl recently, I do hope to accomplish the most games palyed with no timeouts. Last time I checked I think I'm #3 on the list:) To address the problem of tourney players timing out, methinks not much can be done - unless GK institutes a more Swiss style of tourney mangement, where each mini would have a TD (the tourney creator?) who had the ability to alter brackets (adding latecomers, dropping timeout players, changing results, etc...). I simply don't see this ever happening, as it would no doubt be abused. My only advice is to just accept it as it stands right now. This IS a CC site after all. Those who get "penalized" or "rewarded" by players timing out of tourneys must accept the fact that games in a tourney only come up when you have a spot available (which of course is determined by others speed of play). All players in a bracket have the same statistical chance of being a player affected by anothers time out issues. Of course, those who intentionally stall or time out on purpose should be covered in bacon grease and thrown into a pit filled with rabid, malnourished, wild wolves. Naturally, this is just my opinion..............
TheLunacyIsSpreading
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rallyvincent
3/13/2008
13:44:43
[ report abuse ] | Oh well...
Message:
I think that in most cases multiple timimg out is done on purpose but a mere lack of devotion to the games / tournament. Or call it lazyness, whatever. If it were on purpose, it should be followed by a non-time out phase of "bringing in the harvest". You'd expect that kind of player to enter a tournament after dropping his rating and swiping the floor with his opponents instead of timing out again.
Anyway, the idea of using an average rating of the last year for determing the GK tournament section is very good, and IMO should be considered to be introduced.
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bluelake99
3/17/2008
17:38:24
[ report abuse ] | Join limits
Message:
Is there a way to limit open invites from new people listed as 1200 "0" games complete? They seem to time out after 5-6 moves.
I too see many people playing the mini-tour games that have low ratings but play like 1500's. It cost me many points just to get out of one and I won't even trust joining again.
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kansaspatzer
3/17/2008
21:45:36
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
I've played over 3000 games without timing out. It's not particularly hard to avoid.
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easy19
3/18/2008
01:02:18
[ report abuse ] |
Message:
Brings me to a other question..
there are several players that play about 30 to 100 games and then suddenly stop coming to GK. No more games running and not seen for weeks..
How long will it take before there account is suspended (inactive)?
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greyrabbit
3/18/2008
01:16:01
[ report abuse ] | Kansas -
Message:
You say that proudly and you have every right, but some of us mere mortals do make mistakes. I did whilst moving house one time and it cost me some time outs. So please be a little more generous.....
Cheers
Charlie
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marinvukusic
3/18/2008
02:42:13
[ report abuse ] | easy19
Message:
The accounts are never deleted AFAIK. You can check it yourself :) probably it is more trouble to program autodelete than to just leave them alone (disk space is probably not an issue).
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easy19
3/18/2008
06:33:50
[ report abuse ] | Markinvukusic
Message:
Wel i was on GK before years ago. Do to some unexpected relocating i was not on able to get on GK for over a year and wen i came back the account was gone.. (Free Account)
So is it possible that it only counts for non paying members.
- It got my interest because i am in second place round 1 of a GK tournament the NR1 player is possible not returning so if he ain't gonna play i like to play instead.. so what are my chances :)
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rallyvincent
3/18/2008
08:42:13
[ report abuse ] | easy19
Message:
You won't get promoted to the next round unless the winner officially withdraws from the tournament - which won't happen if he does not come back. Instead, the next tournament round will start, and the other three players of the second round will gain two time-out wins each.
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heinzkat
3/18/2008
09:23:57
[ report abuse ] | rallyvincent
Message:
Are you sure? It always says you have to login at least once in the week before the new round starts, or you would get withdrawn:
"Unless you have a vacation flag set for your account, please make
sure to log in to GameKnot at least once before the start date to
confirm your participation. If by the time the next round starts,
you haven't logged in to GameKnot for 7 or more days, you will be
automatically withdrawn from the tournament (in order to avoid
unnecessary timeouts)."
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bluelake99
3/18/2008
11:32:08
[ report abuse ] | Rating Limits
Message:
Is there some rules on starting a new game and setting min/max limits?
I've seen some games set to min = 1201, but don't know how they did this.
On another note are GK tournaments better then "mini" tournaments?
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ravster
3/18/2008
11:39:20
[ report abuse ] | bluelake99
Message:
1) gameknot.com
The last option sets the rating limits (however, what you can set varies on your own rating.
2) That is a matter of opinion.
Ravi
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thumper
3/18/2008
13:16:55
[ report abuse ] | OK
Message:
I would like everyone who regularly times out, with a rating over 1600, to challenge me to a game. I need some easy wins...
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lturner
3/18/2008
13:34:01
[ report abuse ] | munja100
Message:
As you have all these great ideas, how about you start your own site. Seems you can easily identify all the problems here, maybe on your site, you can have all the solutions :)
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chessnovice
3/18/2008
13:42:35
[ report abuse ] | ...
Message:
Why so hostile towards people who merely want to bring irregularities into the realm of community discussion?
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rallyvincent
3/18/2008
14:14:44
[ report abuse ] | Whoops
Message:
@heinzkat
Oh, okay, I never saw that. But I assume this doesn't mean the runner-up of the group will be promoted to the next round but just the winner withdrawn from it...?Well, easy19 will be able to tell us about that.
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ccmcacollister
3/18/2008
15:43:26
[ report abuse ] | EZ
Message:
Most accounts are not deleted until sometime after a year, from what I have witnessed. Tho there can be immediate removal under certain circumstances (circumstances beyond the typical reasons for an account being closed.). I've only seen that happen once or twice.
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munja100
3/18/2008
16:25:27
[ report abuse ] | @lturner
Message:
I already have three sites! Unfortunately, I'm not very good at html/java programming, so I'm unable to implement even the chess board, let alone all those options that GK did. I like it here, but I think it could be even better. Every member, paying or non paying, by the current GK rules, has the right to make proposals, observations, to criticise and praise on this sub-forum.
p.s. Since you are complaining about subscription price, I can recommend you to switch to golden membership. It is almost twice cheaper than silver on yearly level
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heinzkat
3/19/2008
00:36:28
[ report abuse ] | rallyv.
Message:
Indeed, I think the runner-up does not get promoted if the winner is absent. At least, I have been a runner-up once and did not get to the next round that was started not so long ago, although the winner has not been around for quite a while.
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buddie
3/23/2008
10:45:16
[ report abuse ] | Just one ..
Message:
I have just 1 timeout after 1000+ games.
The one timeout was on just the 2nd move of a game with a 3day+1day= max 5 days time limit. Normally I'm quite a fast player and usually in this type of time control I soon build up to the maximum time limit, but in this case I overlooked it, waited 2 days between moves and timed out.
People who time out a lot do annoy me, though. Mainly because it means they are under-rated when they do play. I think my "lowest rating lost against" is an example of this.
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